flint engine plant questions

[Keith B.]

I have read the old John Hinckley article on Flint CRG Research Report - Small Block Assembly Overview (camaros.org).
but it doesn't answer this question was other Gm engines assembled and painted there. I would assume so. if so where they done on separate lines?

[Mark F.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

I have read the old John Hinckley article on Flint CRG Research Report - Small Block Assembly Overview (camaros.org). but it doesn't answer this question was other Gm engines assembled and painted there. I would assume so. if so where they done on separate lines?

Keith,

Despite the relatively medium size of the end product, engine machining from raw casting and assembly thereafter to the engine test stand and then shipping is fairly complicated and expensive. Block Broaching and subsequent machining tool initial costs were hundreds of thousands of dollars - not to mention on-going re-tooling and maintenance costs.

Having worked in and witnessed operations in at least 4 non-GM engine assembly plants and there associated casting plants I would doubt two lines for final assembly of the same block size - but we are talking about the '60s when production numbers were extremely high, so ??

As for feeder lines supplying the main line, yes there were probably duplicate stations and lines there.

Joe Lucia and Duke probably have a better answer for you, as they are more familiar w/ GM than I...
Did GM have other SB engine assembly plants ? I don't recall, if so ?

Have a great Labor Day weekend !

[Joe L.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Keith and Mark-------

The Flint V-8 engine plant had two assembly lines. Each produced a mixture of engine types although, as I recall, Corvette engines were produced on just one of the lines. However, it was not exclusive to Corvette engines and the engines did not come down the line in batches.

Small block V-8's were produced at three engine plants-----Flint, MI, Tonawanda, NY, and St. Catherines, ONT. Castings for the Flint plant were virtually all cast at Saginaw, MI. Casting for the Tonawanda engine plant were produced at the co-located Tonawanda foundry and castings for St. Catherines were produced at a co-located foundry.

All Corvette small block engines from 1955 through 1996 were manufactured at Flint, MI.

On a plant tour of the Flint engine plant which was part of the 1992 NCRS National Convention we we surprisingly allowed to take photos (probably because the plant's days were numbered at that point). I used up every roll of 35mm film I had with me. If I had known beforehand that we would be allowed to take photos I would have had a lot more rolls with me but, nonetheless, I got a LOT of photos.

[John D.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

On a plant tour of the Flint engine plant which was part of the 1992 NCRS National Convention we we surprisingly allowed to take photos (probably because the plant's days were numbered at that point). I used up every roll of 35mm film I had with me. If I had known beforehand that we would be allowed to take photos I would have had a lot more rolls with me but, nonetheless, I got a LOT of photos.

joe
Yes I was there too !. Many were interested in the pad stamp process but I was amazed by the hot test stands where each engine was fired on propane and went through a series of tests. When the engine passed the inspector had a hammer with his specific symbol and he stamped the engine with it. The whole process seemed very sophisticated to me at the time. We also had a great time at the Milford Proving Grounds and they let us drive on the high banked test track. They were working on the ZR1 at the tme and we got the chance to speak with GM engineer Jim Ingle.
Good times !

[Duke W.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

I've never been in a Chevrolet engine plant, but I did do some "tours" of the Pontiac casting and engine assembly plant during my brief time as a production engineer in 1968. The engine plant was next to the engineering building.

I recall the most amazing thing I saw was the boring machine. It must have been ten feet tall. With 8 boring bars, once the block was fixtured all eight bores were machined simultaneously, and it took merely a matter of seconds.

I wondered if all that simultaneous machining caused enough stresses/strains to distort the bores, but I guess not. The sight of a block transfer line was pretty amazing to a kid right out of college.

Duke

[Mark F.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Keith and Mark-------

The Flint V-8 engine plant had two assembly lines. Each produced a mixture of engine types although, as I recall, Corvette engines were produced on just one of the lines. However, it was not exclusive to Corvette engines and the engines did not come down the line in batches. Thanks for that info, Joe...

Small block V-8's were produced at three engine plants-----Flint, MI, Tonawanda, NY, and St. Catherines, ONT. Castings for the Flint plant were virtually all cast at Saginaw, MI. Casting for the Tonawanda engine plant were produced at the co-located Tonawanda foundry and castings for St. Catherines were produced at a co-located foundry. Other than what Duke mentioned about Pontiac casting and engine, were any of the Buick, Olds, and/or Cadillac engines produced in these same plants ? Or, did each Division have their own casting and engine plants?
As with GM, all casting plants at Ford were also co-located with their corresponding engine plants: Cleveland casting w/ Cleveland Engine Plants #1 and #2; Dearborn Specialty Foundry w/ Dearborn Engine; and Windsor casting with Windsor Engine

All Corvette small block engines from 1955 through 1996 were manufactured at Flint, MI.

On a plant tour of the Flint engine plant which was part of the 1992 NCRS National Convention we we surprisingly allowed to take photos (probably because the plant's days were numbered at that point). I used up every roll of 35mm film I had with me. If I had known beforehand that we would be allowed to take photos I would have had a lot more rolls with me but, nonetheless, I got a LOT of photos. Very interesting. Even as an employee at Ford, I was never allowed to have a camera in any plant - even though it would have been extremely beneficial to me for the job I was doing (Industrial Hygienist).

Hi Joe,

Do you happen to have any of those pictures that show the broaching and boring machines with castings being processed ?

If so, would you be able to post any of them ?

I found that I liked being in the casting; machining; stamping; mold/pattern making; and many other "behind the scenes" operations more than the assembly plants. Yeah, assembly plants are very cool and marvels of the Industrial age - but there's a lot going on before those pieces-parts can get bolted on . As a gear head I felt lucky to have worked at Ford and get into all of those plants !

[Ken R.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Many of us got the tour of a lift time in 1992 at Flint. But I for one didn't realize just what we were seeing or the significance of the tour then. I just didn't take enough photos that day also. We asked the stamping guy what he did if he made a mistake. He reached over, got the grinding tool and ground of the stamped numbers. Then he preceded to restamp the block! Just like a normal day's work. Second photo may be the blocks coming out of the broaching machine. At least it is one huge machine.
flint0090.jpg flint0085.jpg

[Joe L.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Hi Joe,

Do you happen to have any of those pictures that show the broaching and boring machines with castings being processed ?

If so, would you be able to post any of them ?

I found that I liked being in the casting; machining; stamping; mold/pattern making; and many other "behind the scenes" operations more than the assembly plants. Yeah, assembly plants are very cool and marvels of the Industrial age - but there's a lot going on before those pieces-parts can get bolted on . As a gear head I felt lucky to have worked at Ford and get into all of those plants !

Mark------


As far as I know, each division had its own engine plants. However, I think the castings for most might have been produced at Saginaw.

The Buick engine assembly plant was located at Buick City in Flint, MI. I think the Oldsmobile engine assembly plant was in Lansing, MI and, of course, the Pontiac engine plant in Pontiac, MI. All of these would have been about as close to the Saginaw gray iron foundry as was the Chevrolet engine plant in Flint. I do not know where the Cadillac engine plant was located.

The only GM engine plants I know of that had a co-located foundry were Tonawanda, NY and St. Catherines, ONT. However, it's possible that Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac did, too.

I have LOTS, probably on the order of 100 or so, of photos of the Flint engine plant operations. Unfortunately, they are all in the envelopes from the film processor and those envelopes are in boxes in no particular order with all the rest of photos from about a 20 year time period. So, finding them won't be easy. I will endeavor to do so in the future, though.

[Duke W.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Mark------


As far as I know, each division had its own engine plants. However, I think the castings for most might have been produced at Saginaw.

However, it's possible that Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac did, too.

In addition to engineering, Pontiac's foundry, engine machining and assembly, and main final assembly plant were all in Pontiac. I actually visited the assembly plant in 1959 when my dad took me with him to pick up a new Bonneville station wagon at the plant in March, 1959.

We took the Great Northern Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago (I got to ride in the cab of the F7 between Minot and Fargo, ND), then a NYC overnight sleeper train to Detroit, picked up the car, drove to Racine, WI to spend a couple of days with grandma, then drove to Seattle. That was before any of the interstate system was built.

Even though I was a little over three years short of having a driver's license, dad gave me some seat time. Somewhere in Minnesota I went to pass a car, and he seemed to speed up, so I floored it, which dropped the Hydramatic into third and easily pulled away. I think I hit 90... 389 Bonnevilles were not something to mess with back then.

Duke

[Steven B.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Mark------


As far as I know, each division had its own engine plants. However, I think the castings for most might have been produced at Saginaw.

The Buick engine assembly plant was located at Buick City in Flint, MI. I think the Oldsmobile engine assembly plant was in Lansing, MI and, of course, the Pontiac engine plant in Pontiac, MI. All of these would have been about as close to the Saginaw gray iron foundry as was the Chevrolet engine plant in Flint. I do not know where the Cadillac engine plant was located.

The only GM engine plants I know of that had a co-located foundry were Tonawanda, NY and St. Catherines, ONT. However, it's possible that Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac did, too.

I have LOTS, probably on the order of 100 or so, of photos of the Flint engine plant operations. Unfortunately, they are all in the envelopes from the film processor and those envelopes are in boxes in no particular order with all the rest of photos from about a 20 year time period. So, finding them won't be easy. I will endeavor to do so in the future, though.

A few years ago at the Texas Regional we saw pics of the broaching line. Sorry I can't remember the year. Way back when in production mgmt at Maremont in Paulding, Ohio took a short trip to the GM foundry and was glad I didn't work in l that heat. Got to see some IH machining/assembly when worked at Hendrickson Tandem and we installed Cat and Pontiac engines in Scouts used to pull logging out of African forests. Although often dirty most facilities were complicated in the machinery used for basic operations. Great experiences.

[Bill M.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

I worked in the Tonawanda dynamometer lab. in the summer of 1969. The highlights were dyno-testing L-88s and watching the ZL-1 aluminum blocks get machined; they were machined by a huge CNC machine. (After seeing that machining operation, the $3000 cost of the block made sense!) I have written up an article detailing the highlights of that assignment. It will be in a future Restorer.

[Mark F.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

I worked in the Tonawanda dynamometer lab. in the summer of 1969. The highlights were dyno-testing L-88s and watching the ZL-1 aluminum blocks get machined; they were machined by a huge CNC machine. (After seeing that machining operation, the $3000 cost of the block made sense!) I have written up an article detailing the highlights of that assignment. It will be in a future Restorer.

Bill,

Can't wait to read your article !

I visited a Research Center dyno-testing facility while testing was in operation. I'm not afraid of machinery, but watching that fan blade rotating almost at eye level at WOT; cherry-red exhaust manifolds; and only clear, thick Plexiglas between you and potentially flying projectiles 'kinda makes you wake up and pay attention.

[Mark F.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

A few years ago at the Texas Regional we saw pics of the broaching line. Sorry I can't remember the year. Way back when in production mgmt at Maremont in Paulding, Ohio took a short trip to the GM foundry and was glad I didn't work in l that heat. Got to see some IH machining/assembly when worked at Hendrickson Tandem and we installed Cat and Pontiac engines in Scouts used to pull logging out of African forests. Although often dirty most facilities were complicated in the machinery used for basic operations. Great experiences.

Steven,

Having been in a foundry, you might also enjoy some of the videos and discussions in these two posts...

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...motive+casting

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...=casting+video

[Ken R.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

I believe that Gary Bosselman has the slide show on the broaching machine.

[John D.]

Re: flint engine plant questions

Back in the early 90's I was visiting the GM tech center and wandered into the engine test area. The had Gen V 454 big blocks on the dynamometer that they ran chilled coolant through all night until they were iced up. The durability test was to start the engine and go full throttle almost immediately.