Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

[Kevin G.]

Asking for a friend....

Exactly how many parts or how much of a "section" judged, can be removed or disassembled, then repaired and or simply reassembled.....An open ended question, I realize. I guess I'm looking for specifics that would disqualify a Star.....This is of course above the listed percentages and the declaration of known parts.

Example, said subject, has a replacement radio but when the vehicle was purchased the original radio came with the car. Several dash components might have to be removed and reinstalled.

Example 2, an engine intake manifold for whatever reason was taken off, then reinstalled.

Thoughts are appreciated!

[Tom R.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

Bowtie judging on items is pass or fail! The expectation is that the car, its assemblies are presented as originally shipped from the factory. Now, that is not to say that deviations have occurred for a number of reasons as you described. There is a declaration page for the owners to declare such deviations.

In the judging process, detectable deviations are failed...bottom line. We have had owners explain over backwards it came that way yet the judging process makes the call while the owner can appeal. Understand at a national convention, a team's best judges are fielded for Bowtie and have extensive experience. Most of whom have seen and judged numerous original assemblies and know the product.

[Harry S.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

Kevin, It's a very high percentage of the area that can not be touched. I can't remember the exact %%, but I believe it's close to 90%.

As an example on the exterior, if all the bumper bolts show signed being removed, you can no longer prove they are the original bumpers.

So, if you friend is thinking of have a Bowtie Judging, he should talk to the Team Leader about the car, attend a Regional for a Bowtie Sign-Off, then attend a National for the actual Bowtie Judging. Tell your friend not to remove anything, just a simple cleaning of the car.

[Kevin G.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

Bowtie judging on items is pass or fail! The expectation is that the car, its assemblies are presented as originally shipped from the factory. Now, that is not to say that deviations have occurred for a number of reasons as you described. There is a declaration page for the owners to declare such deviations.

In the judging process, detectable deviations are failed...bottom line. We have had owners explain over backwards it came that way yet the judging process makes the call while the owner can appeal. Understand at a national convention, a team's best judges are fielded for Bowtie and have extensive experience. Most of whom have seen and judged numerous original assemblies and know the product.

Kevin, It's a very high percentage of the area that can not be touched. I can't remember the exact %%, but I believe it's close to 90%.

As an example on the exterior, if all the bumper bolts show signed being removed, you can no longer prove they are the original bumpers.

So, if you friend is thinking of have a Bowtie Judging, he should talk to the Team Leader about the car, attend a Regional for a Bowtie Sign-Off, then attend a National for the actual Bowtie Judging. Tell your friend not to remove anything, just a simple cleaning of the car.

Thanks Tom and Harry, I'm somewhat revealing my ignorance as I have been able to achieve (2) 5 Star Bowtie Awards! Thing is, both of my cars were, untouched, original, factory examples. My hurdle was the cleanliness or better put the filth that accumulated mainly on the chassis over their lives that had to be gently removed.

This really is a question for a friend that found a supercar! I'm excited to see how far it may climb through the Judging system. I can proudly admit that I have a keen eye for anything that has been "touched", taken off, reinstalled. There's always a small clue, a washer not seated exactly where it was, a nut with it's corners showing wrench marks, things like this.

As my OP posts states I do understand it's tough to make a call on the laptop without pictures, but this intake manifold question, (would that knock out the mechanical Star), is one I'm not sure about....

Thanks again.

[Brian D.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

Kevin,

Exterior and Interior sections must achieve 85% of the line items as Pass.
Mechanical and Chassis sections must achieve 80% of the line items as Pass.
Then each section is evaluated on a Quality basis.
Sections which are too deteriorated to be useful as a teaching tool may Fail, even though the parts are undeniably the original pieces.

I would think that if an intake manifold is determined to have been removed, anything logically required to have done so (carb removal, etc.) would also be marked as Fail. However, that percentage of line items may not necessarily be enough to fail the entire section.
I hope this helps answer your question a bit.

[Tim G.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

Kevin, I'm sure you will be more careful replacing the aftermarket radio with an original type than the previous owner was putting the other radio in the car. I don't think you have anything to lose putting the correct radio in as long as you are careful. Since the car has to be Flight judged for Bow Tie signoff, you probably want the points for an original radio, also. The deductions would apply to operations and the interior section.

[Kevin G.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

Kevin,

Exterior and Interior sections must achieve 85% of the line items as Pass.
Mechanical and Chassis sections must achieve 80% of the line items as Pass.
Then each section is evaluated on a Quality basis.
Sections which are too deteriorated to be useful as a teaching tool may Fail, even though the parts are undeniably the original pieces.

I would think that if an intake manifold is determined to have been removed, anything logically required to have done so (carb removal, etc.) would also be marked as Fail. However, that percentage of line items may not necessarily be enough to fail the entire section.
I hope this helps answer your question a bit.

Thanks Brian! Interesting! With the declarations and percentages, this HUGE motor part on and off could still earn the Star!

Kevin, I'm sure you will be more careful replacing the aftermarket radio with an original type than the previous owner was putting the other radio in the car. I don't think you have anything to lose putting the correct radio in as long as you are careful. Since the car has to be Flight judged for Bow Tie signoff, you probably want the points for an original radio, also. The deductions would apply to operations and the interior section.

Hi Tim, It's not my car this time but i agree more care would be the attempt reinstalling! If I'm not mistaken, Flight Judging can be waived at the Regional where the sign offs are to be attempted.

[Don H.]

Re: Bowtie Judging Question Dis/Re Assembly

A car does not have to be Flight Judged for Bowtie sign off at a Regional, it can just do the sign off.