Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

[Keith M.]

Trying to decide whether better to rebuild my shifter or just buy a complete new assembly. Car is 69 L46 M21 4spd. Don't have the shifter out yet but am real close. I recall that when I last drove the car....loooong time ago....the shifter was loose as a goose. Obviously rebuild would be a lot cheaper...but I don't know if that would end up being a big challenge to get it right and tight...never done one...or am I better off just paying the man to have a whole new assembly to just drop in. Any general guidance? Want to keep as much original as I can...just dunno how technically challenging a rebuild would be...not just to do but to get it right.

[Mike T.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith - My vote is to rebuild the original Muncie Shifter. That is...if you still have the original shifter and not an aftermarket version.
As far as the looseness, could be in a lot of places such as the shift plates attached to the shift fork arms on the trans itself, could be the body of the shifter, could also be the rod ends - possibly the locking hex nuts are just loose. They are pretty simple to work on and you'd definitely get a lot of help from the members here if you go that route.

[Mark E.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

I had a loose feeling shifter on my '70 too. I got a kit that included the bushings, pins and what-not for the pivot points of the three shift rods. Then I just cleaned and lubricated the shifter itself as best as I could using brake cleaner and oil without removing or disassembling it.

Afterwards, it felt tight and crisp. This might be worth a try before tearing into the shifter.

I also put the shift rods into the short throw position, which provides a much better feel, IMO (but if judged, will cost the car a few points).

[Keith M.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

I had a loose feeling shifter on my '70 too. I got a kit that included the bushings, pins and what-not for the pivot points of the three shift rods. Then I just cleaned and lubricated the shifter itself as best as I could using brake cleaner and oil without removing or disassembling it.

Afterwards, it felt tight and crisp. This might be worth a try before tearing into the shifter.

I also put the shift rods into the short throw position, which provides a much better feel, IMO (but if judged, will cost the car a few points).

Great input. Loose feeling....well...mine is looser than a New Orleans prostitute at Mardi Gras!!! I saw a kit like that on Paragon that included the linkages...did you replace the linkage rods too or just the attaching points on either end??

Anything I am gonna do I am gonna do now...I ain't going back in later....and won't have the chance to do one aspect and check it out. I would bet my bottom dollar given how loose it is that it is original shifter. Did not know about alternative shift rod positions...might check that out. Points are of no concern to me for something like that anyway.

[Keith M.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith - My vote is to rebuild the original Muncie Shifter. That is...if you still have the original shifter and not an aftermarket version.
As far as the looseness, could be in a lot of places such as the shift plates attached to the shift fork arms on the trans itself, could be the body of the shifter, could also be the rod ends - possibly the locking hex nuts are just loose. They are pretty simple to work on and you'd definitely get a lot of help from the members here if you go that route.

Thanks Mike. Good to know. Rebuild should be good. Did not know if it was analagous to steering column wherein I contemplated doing the rebuild but after looking into it more that'll be one I outsource!! Will replace all the parts connecting linkage rods too. good idea.

[Gary B.]

[Keith M.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Only problem with the rebuild kits is they include the knob and reverse Tee thingy neither or which I need. Anyone know of a source for rebuild kit without those?

[Keith M.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith,

Assuming it’s the same for C3 as for C2, the two sets of holes for the short vs long throw are in the 1/2 and 3/4 levers that attach to the tranny. The GM originals have both holes. It’s not an aftermarket thing.

Gary

Thank you and yes that is how I understood the other post. will take a peek when I get home but should be straightforward.

[Mike T.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith - Just check the rods for wear at the connection points. The rods typically don't need to be replaced so hold off till you get it removed and on the bench for a checkup. If you do find abnormal wear, easy enough to buy new rods. Back around 2008, I had been taking my 66 L79 Coupe out to Sears Point Raceway for the Wednesday Night Drags and after a while noticed the shifter feeling a bit sloppy. We gave it a good body-on freshen up just 6K miles earlier so wasn't sure where this slop was coming from. Turns out the chromed shifter shaft had gotten loose where the round bar upper section connects to the lower square shape section. A couple of decent weld-tacks did the job on that one.IMG_8455.jpg

[Joe L.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Trying to decide whether better to rebuild my shifter or just buy a complete new assembly. Car is 69 L46 M21 4spd. Don't have the shifter out yet but am real close. I recall that when I last drove the car....loooong time ago....the shifter was loose as a goose. Obviously rebuild would be a lot cheaper...but I don't know if that would end up being a big challenge to get it right and tight...never done one...or am I better off just paying the man to have a whole new assembly to just drop in. Any general guidance? Want to keep as much original as I can...just dunno how technically challenging a rebuild would be...not just to do but to get it right.

Keith------

My experience is that you can replace all the shift levers and interlock and still end up with a shifter that's not right. Why? Because a lot of the problem can be with wear on the shifter handle "blade" at the bottom of the handle. If there is wear on this "blade" your best bet is to buy a new shifter assembly.

[Keith M.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith------

My experience is that you can replace all the shift levers and interlock and still end up with a shifter that's not right. Why? Because a lot of the problem can be with wear on the shifter handle "blade" at the bottom of the handle. If there is wear on this "blade" your best bet is to buy a new shifter assembly.

Yeah...that's the kind of thing I was fearful off. IIRC what you are calling a blade is like a squared off section at the bottom of the handle. I could inspect that area but not sure how much I will be able to conclude by visual alone. If I know original thickness then I could simply measure. Will check it out when i get home tonight. Will also inspect the linkage rods for wear...guessing they will need replaced as they will have wear such as I found on the bellcrank to clutchfork rod which I am therefore replacing. Either way all those are easily dealt with at any time....it is the shifter plan I need sorted out whilst I have the console off and am replacing the boots. Not the end of the world to get back in there again later...but just prefer not to. You know...it's the old...."while I am in there...."
Keith

[Mike T.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith - Here's a couple pics showing that lower end 'blade' that can sometimes be worn that Joe mentioned.
On my 65 396 Roadster, it had a TKO600 Trans but for my kind of driving, I actually prefer a Muncie, so along with getting a
new AutoGear Muncie M22W, I needed a shifter and had an older midyear shifter and a C3 shifter and swapped the shifter handle to
make it work in my 65. That lower blade had some wear on both shafts but it's fairly hard material and both were still usable.
DSCN6200.jpgDSCN6206.jpg

[Joe L.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith - Here's a couple pics showing that lower end 'blade' that can sometimes be worn that Joe mentioned.
On my 65 396 Roadster, it had a TKO600 Trans but for my kind of driving, I actually prefer a Muncie, so along with getting a
new AutoGear Muncie M22W, I needed a shifter and had an older midyear shifter and a C3 shifter and swapped the shifter handle to
make it work in my 65. That lower blade had some wear on both shafts but it's fairly hard material and both were still usable.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]116223[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]116224[/ATTACH]

Mike------


Yes, the "blade" is definitely hardened but it still wears. On my rebuild, after I replaced the levers and interlock plate the shifter operated as tight as new. However, it was immediately "notchy"and shifting through the gears was no longer "smooth-and-silky". I attribute this to the fact that I had new shifter levers but a worn "blade" on the handle. In other words, the original levers and "blade" had worn together and while the shifter was "loose", it was not "notchy". After replacing the levers, the new levers did not articulate as well with the worn "blade".

[Keith M.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Here is a non scientific description of how I recall mine shifted. It had a LOT of lateral play left to right when in between gears. To find first it seemed like a very narrow and precise location to get it in there. Of course second is a straight pull back. But same issue when second to third...up and over just a smidge to find third. As opposed to more contemporary shifters....to get to first just pull all the way to the left and go straight up. How is it "suppose" to be on my vette...no idea...only one I ever had. Maybe above is normal? Tonight I checked linkage rods and did not feel much "play" at all in them.

[Mike T.]

Re: Shifter - rebuild or replace assembly?

Keith - Any other early Vette owners near you where you might stop by for a 'shifter-feel'?