Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

[Duke W.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

Back in the nineties when I attended the SEMA show for several years in a row I talked to all the AC servicing equipment vendors and asked them about converting R12 to R134a.

Every one of them recommended staying with R12 as long as possible.They also stated that there were large stockpiles of R12. Of course, that was over 20 years ago. I haven't checked prices lately, but the last time it did R12 was actually cheaper than R134a.

The problem is that it's getting hard to find shops who have R12 servicing equipment, but if you have a gage set, vacuum pump, and a supply of R12 you can do your own servicing.

A good, tight system should hold enough freon to last for at least several years, and I've gotten up to 10-12 for my vintage cars that have R-12 systems.

Duke

[Mark E.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

I'm not am AC professional either, but agree with Don regarding oil and refrigerant. If you have R12 (last I checked, you can get it from China via eBay),, the system will run more efficiently.

Well, I checked eBay and things have changed the past few years. I didn't see R12 for sale. The search only came up with "direct replacement for R12" refrigerant. One brand is Autofrost.

Anyone know of an R12 source?

Any feedback about "direct replacement R12"?

[Tom L.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

Duke, you're mostly correct. One important thing to know is that all guages sets, vacuum pumps and recovery units work with all refrigerants except for hydrocabons. For examle, I can use my low side guage on my guage set to measure engine vacuum (impractical since the graduation is so small) it is simply a guage. All the other nonsense on the guage face is just a set of Pressure/Temperature charts added for a convenience. Any accurate guage with the appropriate range and used with a paper Pressure/Temperature chart in the technicians hand can be used to service these systems. I think a lot of marketing energy has gone into refrigeration and a/c tools. there are some exceptions but the majority of my tools are old school, nothing fancy with special guage faces.

In the car world there is a tremndous amount of controversy about using 134a vs. 12. In the lite commercial, not heavy commercial or industrial world, the most popular compressor is a 1/3 hp medium temp compressor. Model AE4440 with a suffix. The suffix only indicates voltage, frequency and oil type. When the switch from 12 to 134a happened 30 years ago (BTW the 50+ year old design of the compressor didn't change), only the oil did. In the meanwhile all of your sandwiches at the sandwich shop have been cool and safe and no one has complained about capacity.

Guess that's my 3 cents : )

[Bob I.]

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[Michael L.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

[QUOTE=Mark Edmondson (22468);929466]Well, I checked eBay and things have changed the past few years. I didn't see R12 for sale. The search only came up with "direct replacement for R12" refrigerant. One brand is Autofrost.

Anyone know of an R12 source?

Criagslist

[Rocco S.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

Mike,

I have some R-12 I am willing to sell. I have several 30 # bottles with various ammounts of fill and at least a few 12-14oz. cans. If interested, send me a PM. I believe R-12 can be shipped by UPS Ground.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116091[/ATTAC Here is oil that will work for both]

[Domenic T.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

Hope the pic came out. Dom

[Tom L.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

Just a note about POE oil. If left exposed to the atmosphere it has a strong tendency to absorb moisture. ALWAYS keep it in a closed container and do not leave your a/c system open for any lenght of time. And BTW, it is the best oil for modern refrigerants (in my opinion of course) and is reverse compatable for almost every refrigerant, both old and new, in use today.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Question on R12 vs R134a for '69 A/C

Just a note about POE oil. If left exposed to the atmosphere it has a strong tendency to absorb moisture. ALWAYS keep it in a closed container and do not leave your a/c system open for any lenght of time. And BTW, it is the best oil for modern refrigerants (in my opinion of course) and is reverse compatable for almost every refrigerant, both old and new, in use today.

Tom,
Right on, just like brake fluid it turns amber. I find mega rust in compressors because of open systems and the fact that the comp is the only metal in the system that will rust.
That oil I posted has some good claims, but lists for about 40 a QT.

Dom