Steering Interlock Questions

[Keith M.]

Next up in the seemingly endless things missing from my car...steering interlock cable. So I will be getting a cable to install and my primary question has to do with the steering column lock arm. As you can see in the photo it is...just there. Nothing securing it or what not. And it is locked in place...cannot move it. Is that normal?? Nothing I do can get it to move one way or the other. I have tried putting the key in and turning it to the first stop...nothing. I presume in some condition or other it needs to be movable as in up and down...otherwise it really can't perform any function. Presently steering box and rag joint are out pending a trip to Gary to rebuild. As I continue to peel back the endless onion layers of this car my current question is whether I should pull and rebuild the column...which mostly ends up like everything else being a "yes". But for now just trying to establish the state of this arm and what I should do about it at this point. Lastlyh, though I did get the car running early last year it has not been driven since 2001. I seem to recall the turn signal had a ton of play in it and not sure the cancelling cam was even working. More reasons to pull the column and rebuild. (CRAP...PICTURE CAME OUT UPSIDE DOWN. I WILL TRY AND FLIP AND REPLACE. Can't seem to fix it. If necessary put your right ear to your right shoulder for correct orientation.)

[Michael L.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

I'm far from an expert in steering columns but since no one else has jumped in I'll offer my 2 cents, since I'm a fellow late '69 L-46 4spd guy and just completed my nearly 20 year frame off resto. The point of interlock is to prevent the shifter from moving out of reverse unless the key is turned forward. It will also prevent you from removing the key unless you're in reverse. Your lever not moving when the key is unlocked means the column is not working properly and needs to be serviced. I had mine restored by Magic Mike (not the dancer lol) who advertises in the Driveline. He did a great job. His add says he does up to '68 but he did my '69 and I'm sure he'll do yours as well. With all that's going on with yours it seems it would definitely benefit from a comprehensive overhaul. I would pull it and send it to him. See the pic of my interlock cable at the column attachment point for reference.

One other recommendation I can make is once your back together and the new interlock cable is installed, always shift into reverse in a rather slow, deliberate fashion and make sure anyone who will drive the car (including shops) is aware of this recommendation. The interlock cable design uses a cable to push the lever. Pushing something with a cable is generally a bad idea. The repo cables available today are slightly less stiff then the OEM ones and if you shift it too rough and quickly into reverse, the cable will bend down by the transmission instead of moving the interlock lever. This then prevents you from removing the key, and depending on where you are at the time, not being able to remove your key can be a real hassle. Just FYI.

Mike

interlock cable.jpg


Mike

[Keith M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Thanks Mike. That is helpful. Being as that arm on the column is frozen I am trying to diagnose why that is..without knowing the guts inside the column. I do get the whole interlock concept to a reasonable degree anyway and installing a new cable should be cake. To me...without a cable on the arm I would expect it would flop around as the cable dictates its position, especially when I turn the key. So I believe that whatever it attaches to in the column (some sort of cam or something) is frozen up. I am not excited about rebuilding the column myself but becoming more clear it needs rebuilt. Not that I could not do it but I have SO many other things to take care of and though I want to do as much of the restore myself as I can, some specific things are best left to an expert (e.g. steering box rebuild). And this smells like one of them. Thanks for the reference to Magic Mike. Any chance you remember ballpark of the rebuild?
Keith

PS. I am hoping this to be a driving restoration. I plan to get the vast majority done and at the end (a few years from now) bring it somewhere to pull the body, do up the frame, and repaint it back to Cortex Silver. At 61 I can't afford a 20 year resto and hope to enjoy in summers and work on it all winters. Probably 2 to 3 years away from the frame/paint work. We shall see. Most days I feel I am completely rebuilding the entire car. Isn't much that does not need meaningful attention.

[Michael L.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

No problem. I'm not familiar with the specific working inside the column to say what is wrong, but you are correct that it should move freely once the key is turned forward.

I don't recall what he charged but just remember thinking it was reasonable.

[Terry M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Keith
You might want to look at Jim Shea' steering papers on-line

http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/

[Keith M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Thanks Terry. I had stumbled on one of his papers but had not discovered that main page. I read the one paper I found...to learn it will require at least one more read for me to fully understand. Also, meant to include before that another issue my column has is that the steering wheel is at 9 O-clock when driving straight down the road. Another issue I need to resolve.

[Mark E.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

For me, reading Shea's steering column material confirmed that rebuilding a column for the first time is high risk of breaking something, high risk of me not correctly installing one of the many small parts, requires special tools I don't have, and time consuming...one of those projects where the second try is more successful and faster. I've never done it but that was my impression.

Regarding the interlock- try grasping and turning the collar on the column that rotates with the stuck lever. Maybe you can free it that way. Make sure the key is turned to "on" (or is it "run"?).

[Keith M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

For me, reading Shea's steering column material confirmed that rebuilding a column for the first time is high risk of breaking something, high risk of me not correctly installing one of the many small parts, and time consuming. Second time may be much easier and faster. I've never done it but that was my impression.

Regarding the interlock- try grasping and turning the collar on the column that rotates with the stuck lever. Maybe you can free it that way. Make sure the key is turned to "on" (or is it "run"?).

Yep. That's pretty much where I see myself getting to on this one. Farm it out. I put a reasonable amount of pressure I was comfortable with on the arm in each direction with virtually no give. Specifically it will move like 1/8" or so..maybe less.. but then feels locked. The throw of the reverse linkage would want to move it quite a bit more than that I would think. Does not feel functional and is bound by something internal. The clutch bellcrank is apart right now but regardless I would think engaging the clutch were it together would have no effect on ability of the arm to move.

[John S.]

[Keith M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Hi John,
Standard column. If one were able to see the arm from the driver seat it is frozen in about the 2:30 clock position. I had read somewhere that when interlock in place and functioning properly, with the car in reverse the arm would be UP in about the 1:00 o'clock position and allowing the key to be removed. As you stated and I have read that some people who wanted to intentionally disable the feature would disengage the cable (and remove it if they so choose) and would have to then wire the arm to the up position. But somehow this is frozen in a position that should not allow the key to be removed if I am understanding everything correctly. Possibly it froze up inside in some manner that also disabled the feature, and a PO just decided to remove the cable? Who knows. And following is just speculation but I don't think it is rust but more likely some damaged internals. Even without this problem a column rebuild seems challenging and with layering this on top of other issues probably best to pull it and leave it to an expert to rebuild, then just reinstall. Not that it matters but like yours this is an M21.

[Terry M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Thanks Terry. I had stumbled on one of his papers but had not discovered that main page. I read the one paper I found...to learn it will require at least one more read for me to fully understand. Also, meant to include before that another issue my column has is that the steering wheel is at 9 O-clock when driving straight down the road. Another issue I need to resolve.

Take your time with Jim Shea's papers. They are invaluable. And they may just convince you to farm out the steering column work. If so, they have served their purpose. Check carefully the way the column shaft goes into the rag joint. I am not sure if it is possible to misaligne it if it is a stock unit (I think not, but Jim's papers will explain that). If the column is inserted into the rag joint improperly that could be the root of the steering wheel misalignment.

Your steering wheel misalignment may not be in the column or the insertion into the rag joint. It might be the front wheel alignment. That is a whole other situation. Measure the tie rod lengths on each side of the car. A tape measure will be good enough. If both are not about the same length a good front wheel alignment (you might as well get the rear alignment at the same time and go for a 4-wheel alignment) is in order. Finding someone to do a C2 or C3 4-wheel alignment is a challenge, but as I said that is a whole other issue. There is no sense complicating the job at this point. One step at a time.

[Terry M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Thanks Terry. I had stumbled on one of his papers but had not discovered that main page. I read the one paper I found...to learn it will require at least one more read for me to fully understand. Also, meant to include before that another issue my column has is that the steering wheel is at 9 O-clock when driving straight down the road. Another issue I need to resolve.

Take your time with Jim Shea's papers. They are invaluable.

Your steering wheel misalignment may not be in the column. It might be the front wheel alignment. That is a whole other situation. Measure the tie rod lengths on each side of the car. A taped measure will be good enough. If both are not about the same length a good front wheel alignment (you might as well get the rear alignment at the same time and go for a 4-wheel alignment) is in order. Finding someone to do a C2 or C3 4-wheel alignment is a challenge, but as I said that is a whole other issue. One step at a time.

[John S.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Keith, the good news is the internals on a standard column are a bit simpler, but as I mentioned earlier a little harder to find. I would start with the Driveline magazine to hopefully find a source to rebuild your column, they may also be your best bet for any parts you may need.

Regarding the position of your lever, I could be wrong but it looks like it’s all the way up, the proper position to remove the key. Here’s a couple shots of mine to compare.

The first is all the way up with the key removed and the trans in R.

F4FDB812-9AF7-4F69-899C-1F1FDF10FFF6.jpg

The second is down with the key in the run position and the trans in N.

586BEED2-3D70-4C59-A358-B63EAAD7F199.jpg

The other thing I will add is the inability to move the lever is not going to help you with removal of the column. The plate behind the lever needs to come off from the engine side of the firewall and the lever needs to go through the keyhole shaped cut out in the firewall. It might get interesting. Good luck and let me know if I can help out with any pics or further descriptions.

One last item on posting pics to this website, I’ve found if you edit the photo (rotate or a small crop) before you post it, it will keep the desired orientation.

[Keith M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Thanks Terry and John for your info and guidance. Firstly, measured the tie rods zerk to zerk. Left one was 16" and right one was 15 3/4". Not sure what expected tolerance should be but that seems a bit too much to me. Perhaps not? Thinking through the geometry makes my brain hurt a little. If the left one is shortened a bit and right one extended that would push the pitman arm left as in a left turn which would put the steering wheel further away from 12 o'clock..currently around 9 oclock.. But maybe if it gets close to 6 o'clock and the column was previously connected to the rag joint 180 degrees off...maybe that's the combined fix. Who knows...but as you said Terry...one step at a time.

John, good advice. I had previously gone through the Driveline marking up variety of things to follow up on. Of course reading your post made me go look for it...nowhere to be found. I had on a recent vacation...hope it didn't get lost...but least of my issues. As I write this I believe Driveline stuff is online here somewhere? Which ties into my opinion that the website needs more overhaul than my steering...but I digress. Your explanation and pic of the two arm positions solved one mystery. And on the photo...ya I tried rotating original and reposting a few times to no avail. Moot at this point but will note for future.

[Lawrence M.]

Re: Steering Interlock Questions

Hi Keith,
In the Banner at the top of the page you will see a tab, Online Publications. Click on it, follow the instructions and you will be able to view the current Driveline or Restorer.