Consolidating Car Divisions at Regional Meets

[Dave P.]

I'm curious as to how other Owners feel about being judged in one-and-done and two car Divisions? (I'm the 92 for Tucson.)

[David H.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

.... I suspect that there will be judges assigned to divisions they are not proficient in. Judges that are conscripted to participate in divisions they aren't familiar with affect consistency and fairness.

... But if these low car-counts at events continue, there are going to HAVE to be some changes. Consolidation of divisions, and reduction of the duration of the event are going to be necessary. ... ...

I feel "consolidation" is going to be implemented for survival, but single and 2 car divisions are here now. ....

Dave

Agree in part - costs are a major factor for all. Owners/judge like (expect?) National and Regional events to be indoors - for Regionals, those venues are cost prohibitive for many Chapters. Outdoor - will owners show up? No cars - no judges.

If a judge currently is not proficient in a particular year, then consolidation is not going to make them proficient. Seems like we hear complaints about not enough judging jobs - consolidation is not going to fix that.

National every two years - doesn't sound appealing.

More cars would help, but where are those "more cars" going to come from?

As a cross-section, examine threads on our Tech Board. I believe, owners get driven off/don't join by a pervasive attitude of "perfection at all costs". Folks see discussions about $3000 air filters that vs a reproduction, can garnish 1 point (out of 4500 points), and they feel out of place in that rarified air.

I know some will say, "if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen". And they do exactly that, stay away and leave us to ourselves.

Ask some ex-members and then tell me that I'm wrong. You get a response of "Those guys are nuts!". You think they are coming back? You think they don't talk to other Corvette owners?

If it was simple and easy to fix, then we'd have it done.

Dave

[David H.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

[QUOTE=Dave Perry (19643);927003]

Dave P:

Dave H: ... You continue to prioritize "Judges" before "Owners". ... Sorry you got that impression, both are necessary.

I'll take the contrarian view: There are [simply] too many judges wanting to judge in proportion to the cars being entered for judging.

I question if telling those non-owner judges to stay away will help much, but why not try something new. Will having only "Owner Judges" improve judging quality. Just getting folks to read the Owner's and Judges Advisory at beginning of our JRM would help.

As for me, I'll never enter a Flight car. I have absolutely no interest in that. Not that I don't enjoy those cars very much, i do. That's why I stuck around for 400 points. That's why I spent years on local Chapter Board. That's why I spent years as Chapter Judging Chairman. That's why I been asked to, and given, Judging Schools for other Chapters. That's why I did on-line schools during Covid. Sorry my interests and actions don't meet your standards.

Yes, I'm interested in Corvettes - mostly I like driving them - don't see a lot of Flight cars being driven. What's the point, take it to original, then put it in your museum? I'd rather have a poster.

Car I'm restoring will be a driver. No way meet NCRS standards - it will look largely original, but it will be a driver.


Dave

[David H.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

Why did you respond to my inquiry? You're not an "owner".

Dave

You're right. Should not have given you the time of day. Sorry to waste your time responding to my post.

Best of luck with your efforts to get more owner involvement.

Dave

[David H.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

I won't wast your time asking you to judge my car.
You just lost the only C4 you had for Tucson.

I'm pulling it. I don't need this.

Dave

Sorry you are withdrawing your car. I've followed with interest your posts on preparation.

I'm not registered, nor plan to attend Tucson Regional. As you stated earlier, cars are needed.

Dave

[David H.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

Moderators

Never my intention to participate in hijacking this thread.

Could you extract the above back-and-forth between Dave Perry and myself and start a new thread (with an appropriate subject line) in regular threads?

Our discussion is a distraction from Mike's efforts to keep members informed about Tucson Regional.

Thanks

Dave Houlihan

[Michael J.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

Hate in interrupt a good kerfuffle, but I have had 23 cars entered for judging in Regional and National events since 2010, and I will only judge at chapter events, unless asked in emergencies at a regional (it has happened a few time). The way I would answer this question:"I'm curious as to how other Owners feel about being judged in one-and-done and two car Divisions?" is: I am fine with that and have no problems with it, and I am surprised anyone would.

[Mike D.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

I have not heard from any owner complaining about a one and done. They usually show appreciation for having their car judged. Most enjoy the experience and socialize with the car owners next to them, Financially for all involved, it does not make sense to judge 1 car, and consolidating classes may be the future. Looking at Tucson, the classes could be 53-62, 63-65, 66-67, 68-72, 73-82, 84-2004.

[Michael J.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

So then maybe KC or Joe can stay home, I have seen that happen several times in the last few years.

[Harry S.]

Re: Consolidating Car Divisions at Regional Meets

I typically judge 53-55 and 56-57. The car counts have been dwindling for years and was to be expected. When I have one or two cars, my team works very slow and spends quality time with the owner, more time than if I had 8 cars. To me one car in a class is OK, I get to spend more time with friends that I have made over the last 20 years.

[Michael J.]

Re: Consolidating Car Divisions at Regional Meets

I agree with you Harry, the only time I have judged more than 2-3 cars at a meet, I felt very rushed and pushed, the worst was at the 2017 Texas Regional where we had 25 '67s to judge in 2 days. I don't want to be disrespectful, but judging Corvettes is not brain surgery or rocket or nuclear science, and full consistency is only possible having the same judge judging your car at multiple meets with enough time to spend, and accuracy is another matter altogether. Having had many cars judged, and having judged many cars, I do not expect perfection, but it is nice for a judge to be able to spend some time getting to know you and your car, that was always the best experiences for me as an owner and judge.

[Leif A.]

Re: Consolidating Car Divisions at Regional Meets

I agree with you Harry, the only time I have judged more than 2-3 cars at a meet, I felt very rushed and pushed, the worst was at the 2017 Texas Regional where we had 25 '67s to judge in 2 days. I don't want to be disrespectful, but judging Corvettes is not brain surgery or rocket or nuclear science, and full consistency is only possible having the same judge judging your car at multiple meets with enough time to spend, and accuracy is another matter altogether. Having had many cars judged, and having judged many cars, I do not expect perfection, but it is nice for a judge to be able to spend some time getting to know you and your car, that was always the best experiences for me as an owner and judge.

Ah, the good old days.

[Brian D.]

Re: Consolidating Car Divisions at Regional Meets

As an owner, I haven't found much problem with being the only car in my class.
I mostly feel for the judges. Every team wants to go first, which usually results in a cluster around the car.
Being one of many cars is a double-edge sword: you may benefit in final score by having busy judges hurry and miss deductions, yet ultimately suffer because you didn't learn something about your car which would help improve your score at the next outing. This becomes more likely if you're the last car of the day for a particular section team.

As a judge, I've found the optimal count per day to be three or four cars.
This gives plenty of time for detailed inspection, and communicating with the owner.
It's also helpful with having time to teach my teammate if I'm the senior judge, learn if I'm the junior judge, and educate an OJ if we've got one.
The overall TFP quality of an individual car will also greatly influence the amount of time required for accurate judging and note writing!

[Michael J.]

Re: Consolidating Car Divisions at Regional Meets

And luckily for those chasing points, or other kind of judges, you get the same points no matter how many cars you judge, so where's the problem again?

[Joseph S.]

Re: 2023 Tucson Regional

Mike, Typically if one of us stays home we will still use 2 sets of judges. That way everyone gets their chance to judge.

There are still many judges that come out for the fun of judging cars and spending time with friends we only get to see a few times a year. I know personally for me, it was never about the points. Hanging with friends, seeing great cars, meeting interesting people, that's why we go!