1964 Firewall Insulation

[Bernie B.]

I'm curious about the insulation on the firewall, inner fender and wheelhouse installed on my car. According to Noland Adams book (pg. 194) only the first 3600 '64 cars built would have had the insulation installed. My VIN falls well within that range. I checked the archives and found only one question about it and no real answer. The person described his was installed in the same locations as mine is. Noland didn't have much information about it either other than it was installed. He states the insulation was "fiberglass between foil layers" and was "attached to the fiberglass body panels with pointed plastic push-in retainers". The insulation in my car does not have foil or the push in retainers. It appears to be glued on.
I was wondering if anyone did any more research on this. I'm trying to verify originality as much as possible. My questions are, Were they precut or molded sections? Were they possibly glued on without foil backing. Are reproduction sections available? If someone has a car to be judged either restored or for a possible bowtie, will the judges be looking for this on the early '64 cars? I attached some pictures. If anyone has other pictures, maybe post to compare? Thanks Firewall Insulation1 (2).jpgFirewall Insulation3 (2).jpg

[John F.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

The only insulation I see near that area is the tunnel insulator, that was over the bell housing and transmission. See AIM page Models 800 Sheet C1.00. It is about 45 pages in of the Assembly Instructions. Some vendors have it.

[Bernie B.]

[Richard M.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

It's likely not in the AIM because there must have been a revision canceling it. The AIM final version would therefore not show the page(s) as they'd be removed.

Interestingly, I never knew it existed on the early cars. But I wonder if it was all cars or just a selected amount based on where they were being shipped, i.e. maybe high temperature zones.

Rich

[Bernie B.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

This car was shipped to Pennsylvania. According to Nolan Adams book they figured it was only installed up to VIN # xxx3600. Is this something judges look for? It would be interesting to see other examples.

[Bill M.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

I have a 1964 Coupe SN 70 built on the first day of production which is highly original including the paint. It does have the same insulation in the same locations. Per Nolan, it was only in coupes to keep heat down and that is also why the 64 had a blower motor in the back of the coupe to circulate air. It did not work well and was discontinued. The insulation looks like normal home owner's insulation and is very easy to damage and remove. Mine is an NCRS national top flight and in the process the judges initially and well meaningly said to remove it as 'not factory
'. It is not in the judging manual but is in Nolan's book.

[Bernie B.]

[Bill M.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

Mine is all original - did not replace it. Not sure if I can get a picture of it as the car is on the top of a lift for storage for winter. If it comes down, I will send you a picture but it looks very similar to yours.

Carlton, the team lead at the national level is aware of it but many other judges are not as per Nolan it was only for coupes, only for 64 and only for early production cars. But bring the Nolan book and you should be fine. All of the judges I showed the book to accepted it.

[Don H.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

I'm quite sure the new 63/4 NTL Joe Scafidi is well aware of that interesting detail on early 64 cars, as would be any National level Chassis judges. On the other hand, most Chapter judges would likely never have heard of it (unless they happened to own a very early 64). Here is the description of it from pg. 194 of Noland Adams V2, under 1964 'Bodywork'
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[Bill M.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

We have a lot of great volunteers in this organization but some are not up-to-date and experienced even at the national level. I had my 64 at nationals in Texas approximately five years ago and the national level judges were taking condition points off for my tires. I had just joined the NCRS And said I am not sure but I think there is a chart for standard deduction on tires. I asked them to check with other judges before I sign the sheet which they both did and then corrected the sheet.

[Don H.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

Bill
the Standard Deduction Guidelines apply to Originality judging. Condition is judged separately.
Still, your point is well taken.

[Joseph S.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

Guys, We do have knowledge of the short span of insulation applied to early 64 Coupes. I'm working on a revision to the current manual. I'll make sure that there is a note in the next revision about these cars.

This is a small sample of cars so we don't see many on the judging field that often. Maybe 1 or 2 in a 5 to 10 year span.

[Bill M.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

And you too are correct. My typo. the points were for configuration as they were reproduction. And yes I was And I still am one of those green judges who are placed with a more senior judge to learn about the cars. I have a 65 mustang and a 55 Thunderbird and none of those clubs and their knowledge compares to the knowledge and skill of the NCRS.

[Norman Y.]

Re: 1964 Firewall Insulation

Bernie
I have a 64 coupe that I have owned for 55 years. It had firewall insulation exactly as appears in your pics. It was glued on, no foil and no push-in retainers. My car was built during the first month of MY production, Sept 63. I restored the car in 1981 but the insulation was in bad shape so I replicated the size and thickness using house insulation, and glued it on. I showed the car at numerous NCRS shows and 3 nationals. The judges had no info on insulation, it was a non-issue. But that was a different time and place and the judging manual was only 30 pages long.
I have obtained each successive judging manual for 63-64 cars but no info on insulation. I have contacted the judging chairman a few times but the answer has been "no info". I did not know about the info in the Nolan Adams book.
Norm

[Bernie B.]