GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

[Frank E.]

[Hank D.]

appearance

[Brian D.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

A current day Delco battery might well judge as:
"C" Configuration - markedly different appearance from the actual original.
"D" Date - obviously from a newer time period, or with a current date code.
"F" Finish - casing color; labels, etc.
That would get you a 60% (20% x 3 areas) deduction, opposed to the standard deduction value of 50%
I think I'd stay with the standard sheet.

[David H.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Frank

Your attached extract of Standard Deduction Guideline #13 is out of date.

Current SDG is JRM 9th edition, February 2022 Revision 7.0

Batteries are judged under Standard Deduction Guideline #2.

Dave

[Frank E.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

appearance

I understand but I just think that a service replacement is a service replacement and item 13 adds confusion to the judging process for not only the owner but also the judge. Why are batteries and oil filters singled out? We all know that batteries are good for maybe 3 - 5 years and filters for a few thousand miles. So every judged entry really doesn't have those original items since it takes over 12 years to have a generation presented for judging. Exceptions would be for the special judged categories.
I do understand what 13 is trying to do but I think it is contradictory....

[Frank E.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Thanks Brian.... I would judge the labels as part of the Configuration so it would probably be only a 40% deduct but could be up to the 60% if the case was something other than black. I know we're cutting hairs here but I'm just trying to get an understanding on this.

[Frank E.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Thanks David..... I do have the latest but it didn't scan very well due to the plastic. However, the difference between the two isn't my focal point. My question is why the two guidelines? Batteries are a service replacement item.....

[Patrick H.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Thanks David..... I do have the latest but it didn't scan very well due to the plastic. However, the difference between the two isn't my focal point. My question is why the two guidelines? Batteries are a service replacement item.....

Because batteries are going to die. No matter how hard you try, you won't keep an original battery going for 25 years. And, shy of finding a dry NOS one you won't find any unused 25+ year old battery you can put in your car.
Having said that, there are members who replace original battery internals and keep the case, so the battery then presents as the original. Good for them.

The point of Item 13 is quite well stated in its first paragraph.
In essence, every item should be judged on the CDCIF standard excepting those with standard deductions. It doesn't matter where it came from, use CDCIF.

[Joseph S.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Frank, Service Replacement refers to any GM part not originally installed at the factory at the time of initial vehicle build. You could have a Service Replacement Bumper, Bracket, Seat cover, Gauge, etc.

These Service Replacement parts are sometimes extremely universal in use so they may not have an exact configuration to the original part they are replacing.

[Frank E.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Frank, Service Replacement refers to any GM part not originally installed at the factory at the time of initial vehicle build. You could have a Service Replacement Bumper, Bracket, Seat cover, Gauge, etc.

These Service Replacement parts are sometimes extremely universal in use so they may not have an exact configuration to the original part they are replacing.

Thanks Joe... Totally agree and that's where CDCIF really shines. But that also could beg the question, why have Std. Deductions for service replacement parts but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole....

[Terry M.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

The initial reason for standard deductions was so that parts thaat are common to ALL Corvettes are treated equally across all judged Corvettes. If you look at the items that are standard deductions ALL Corvettes have tires, window glass, batteries, headlamps, paint and so on.

That said, the Standard Deduction list does NOT address exhaust systems (except for the material or coating deductions. The same is true of brake lines. So it is not a complete listing of ALL standard items.

[Frank E.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

The initial reason for standard deductions was so that parts thaat are common to ALL Corvettes are treated equally across all judged Corvettes. If you look at the items that are standard deductions ALL Corvettes have tires, window glass, batteries, headlamps, paint and so on.

That said, the Standard Deduction list does NOT address exhaust systems (except for the material or coating deductions. The same is true of brake lines. So it is not a complete listing of ALL standard items.

Thanks Terry.... So what I've gotten out of all of this discussion is that it has been a long practice over the years to include in the TIMJGs specific components for Standard Deductions, e.g. Batteries, oil filters, etc. as determined by the Authors and that for non-declared components that are SRs, OEM, etc. apply the CDCIF guideline. That's what Item 13 is all about. If I'm correct, then a little wordsmything on item 13 to clarify its purpose would be in order. It just seems that using the phrase "service replacement" there is contradictory.

For those that don't have the latest guideline, here it is.....

"13. GM-Service Replacement, GM-Licensed Reproduction Parts and Non-OEM Parts

There is a wide variation in (1) original, (2) later issue, and (3) present-day con-figuration of items listed and sold by GM as service replacement, GM-licensed and non-OEM parts. It is therefore difficult to place a consistent, fair deduction on each item. All items that are correct and indiscernible from original as
installed will receive no Originality deduction even though a judge may know or thinks he/she knows that they are not original components. There can be no deduction because a judge thinks an item looks too new to be an original item. See JRM Section 3, Item #9.

Originality deductions are not to be made based upon the fact that an item is GM-service replacement, GM-licensed reproduction or non-OEM component. The item must be judged based on the overall degree of correctness as installed on a given car.

Items that appear reasonably correct as installed will be evaluated for Originality (and possible deduction) per CDCIF in JRM Section 3, Item #9.

Items that are significantly dissimilar as installed will receive a Standard Deduction of 100% for Originality per JRM Section 3, Item #14. Team Leader concurrence is required."

[Joseph S.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Frank, Section 13 is very clear. It is stating to judge to CDCIF and the appearance as to "as it left the factory" No automatic deduct because you know it's a replacement or reproduction. If it meets CDCIF 100% it's good. If it doesn't meet 100% then take the appropriate deduct.

Standard deduct tables are something completely different. All those are spelled out for each item.

[Frank E.]

Re: GM Service Replacement Items and How To Judge

Frank, Section 13 is very clear. It is stating to judge to CDCIF and the appearance as to "as it left the factory" No automatic deduct because you know it's a replacement or reproduction. If it meets CDCIF 100% it's good. If it doesn't meet 100% then take the appropriate deduct.

Standard deduct tables are something completely different. All those are spelled out for each item.

Thanks Joe.... I don't disagree. However, that's not my focus in this thread. My focus is using the term "Service Replacement" in item 13 as contradictory. Batteries, Oil Filters, Air Filters etc. are specifically called out in the TIMJG for a particular generation as Std. Deduct items. These items are also referenced in the TIMJG as "Service Replacements". There in lies the basis for this discussion. Explaining this contradiction to a newcomer to this process could be confusing for them. I will have no problem explaining to any person new to having their car judged how item 13 does not apply to specific components called out in the TIMJG as Std. Deduction components. It doesn't mean I agree with it but it is the rules for fair and consistent judging practice.

We're all good.....