My C2 Alignment results, any good?

[Paul B.]

Hi,
Had my '63 on the alignment rack today, it's presently on bias ply repros, but I am going to install 205/75/15 radials.
Here are a couple of screen shots, as you know adjusting the rear toe is difficult when using the correct shims, do you guys think that this is close enough to have decent handling and not trash the tires? Probably a couple of thousand miles a year?

Thanks,
Paul

IMG_5480.jpg

IMG_5479.jpg

[Duke W.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

With those settings it must handle like a greasy turd! And with toe out on the right rear, it must be pretty spooky.

Both "touring" and "sport alignment" spec recommendations have been posted here numerous times by me and the late John Hinckley. Sounds like with "van tires" the touring setting should be down your alley with radial tire toe settings.

Spend some bucks and have the alignment dialed in so you can enjoy driving it and not have it spin you off into the weeds.

Duke

[Mark E.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

Are these the settings after the alignment? If yes, why so far off specs?

[Paul B.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

Thanks Duke, I appreciate the feedback.
First off; I'm very sorry to hear that John did pass away, I had suspected as much, I had the pleasure of knowing him for many years, but had no contact since he first had returned home.
He was not only an obviously absolute wealth of Corvette knowledge, but also a true gentleman always willing to help.

As for my alignment; I have no issue whatsoever paying the price to get it done right, the problem is finding someone in the Montreal area able and willing to tackle the rear toe with the original two hole shims, from what I understand, the rear has to be right to do the front?
I guess I'll have to keep looking, but unfortunately I don't expect that I'll have much luck...

All the best,
Paul

[Thomas N.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

Paul
If you can't get anyone to deal with the two hole shims, You can use the slotted shims, have the alignment place do the alignment to get it into specs, and then take it home to R&R the shims with the two hole shims. Just a thought.

[Mark E.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

Rear toe adjustment may be unique but it's not difficult. An experienced alignment will quickly catch on after you explain the process or ask them to look up the procedure.

Consider bringing a set of shims and pins if the existing ones are crusty.

[Danny P.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

Thanks Duke, I appreciate the feedback.
First off; I'm very sorry to hear that John did pass away, I had suspected as much, I had the pleasure of knowing him for many years, but had no contact since he first had returned home.
He was not only an obviously absolute wealth of Corvette knowledge, but also a true gentleman always willing to help.

As for my alignment; I have no issue whatsoever paying the price to get it done right, the problem is finding someone in the Montreal area able and willing to tackle the rear toe with the original two hole shims, from what I understand, the rear has to be right to do the front?
I guess I'll have to keep looking, but unfortunately I don't expect that I'll have much luck...

All the best,
Paul

Hi Paul, sorry to hear you can't find someone in Montreal to do your Alignment on your Corvette , i live in Ottawa not far from you i just pass my NCRS Performance Verification in April, 2022 and the Corvette must run straight doing your PV road test and recieved my Duntov in August 2022 , i have a Shop in Ottawa that will do C1 C2 Corvette Alignment., Danny

[James W.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

I had a spare set of shims modified to help make the alignement easier. Once it's dialed in, then the same size shims without the slots can be installed.

James

[Duke W.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

Thanks Duke, I appreciate the feedback.
First off; I'm very sorry to hear that John did pass away, I had suspected as much, I had the pleasure of knowing him for many years, but had no contact since he first had returned home.
He was not only an obviously absolute wealth of Corvette knowledge, but also a true gentleman always willing to help.

As for my alignment; I have no issue whatsoever paying the price to get it done right, the problem is finding someone in the Montreal area able and willing to tackle the rear toe with the original two hole shims, from what I understand, the rear has to be right to do the front?
I guess I'll have to keep looking, but unfortunately I don't expect that I'll have much luck...

All the best,
Paul

Most shops have state-of-the-art four-wheel alignment equipment since most cars have four wheel IRS with adjustments at both ends. Front end camber and caster on your Corvette is set with shims on the upper control arm cross shafts and the tie rods are adjustable for toe... pretty simple.

Rear camber is easy to set with the eccentric bolts on the strut rod bracket. Rear toe can be tricky if you've never done it before, but it's really not that hard. In order to change rear toe with the captured shims, use a pole jack to raise the rear spring enough to take the load off. Place the jack cup as far outboard as possible. Then use the spare tire jack to support the frame rail just ahead of the rear wheel. Now the nut and bolt cam be removed allowing shims to be added or subtracted and in some cases it's just a matter of swapping some side to side.

The total shim stack should be a slight interference fit that requires light tapping to seat the last shim, and it should be a thick one.

What you need to do is visit several alignment shops. Bring your service manuals and AIM to show the shim set up and explain the procedure... maybe copy and paste this to notepad and print it out.

Pick the shop that gives you the most confidence that they can do the job correctly, and buy a selection of front and rear shims because the shop will likely not have the right type


Even if the machine has alignment settings for your car use the following, and most alignment machines can be set to read toe in inches, mm, or degrees. Side to side differences in settings should be as close to zero as possible.

Touring

Front camber, zero degrees
Front caster, 1-2 degrees, nominally 1.5 for manual steering and up to 2-2.5 for power steering, but settings of 2 degrees and above may not be possible
Front toe,. 1/16" total toe-in

Rear camber, negative 0.5 deg.
Rear toe, 1/32" toe in per wheel, for a thrust angle as close to zero as possible.

The above settings should be as close to equal side to side as possible, and it is especially critical to have total rear toe-in split equally between both side. Also the above toe settings are for radial tires. For bias ply tires toe settings can be up to double the above values.

To convert linear toe settings to degrees, use the following formula. If OE size tires are installed use 27.0" for 7.75-15, F70-15, 215/70R-15; 27.4 for 6.70-15, 225/70R-15 for inflated tire OD.

Toe (inches) = Tire radius (toe angle in radians); 2Pi radians = 360 degrees...

Toe (inches) = Tire radius in inches (toe angle in degrees (2Pi/360))

Toe (degrees) = toe (inches)(360/2Pi)/tire radius in inches.

So 1/32" toe in per wheel is a toe angle of approximately 0.13 degrees.

Within the last couple of years I helped a friend correct a RR toe out problem that caused a severe instability. I was just a matter or swapping some shims from the inside to outside. We got a baseline from an alignment machine. Then I calculated how much shim stack needed to be swapped to get as close to 1/32" toe as possible.

I may have documented the procedure in a thread I started here, and it's also on the CF in a thread I (SWCDuke) started. You should read them, so you can describe the procedure to the shops you interview, and it will teach you how to compute a new shim stack, given the existing shim stack and accurate toe reading as inputs.

Duke

[Ed S.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

I did the same thing - my "alignment guy" was extremely appreciative. They stay in.

[Paul B.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

My apologies for the delay in responding, I had been traveling last week.

Thank you for all of the feedback, it's greatly appreciated, and thank you Duke for the very detailed reply, it is very helpful as usual.

I just bought the car recently, it had a full frame off on a rust free car, but was never really driven after the resto, everything is whistle clean, it appears that a proper alignment had ever been done.

I had in fact used slotted shims like you James to have the shop set the right rear, I then removed and measured the stacks with a vernier caliper before replacing with the correct two hole shims later at home, I obviously need to find a better shop, the posted shots were taken after the shims were re installed.

I have been asking my car buddies for a local shop, the usual sad story of most of the experienced guys having retired...
If all else fails, I may ultimately have to take you up on your offer Danny and drive to Ottawa, I had planned to go visit Steve Bell anyway.

All the best,
Paul

[John D.]

Re: My C2 Alignment results, any good?

I do not see caster readings. Caster is important too.