63 FI stalls under load

[John D.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

Before you go into the F.I. I would make sure that your electrical is in groove. I have put 100K plus miles on my 63 F.I. with minimal troubles. I agree about the cranking signal valve and it can easily be checked by clamping the vacuum line into it with a small vice grip after it is running. If it smooths out, there is your problem. John, the F.I guru told me the repo CSV are all questionable. What about the fuel filter. Has it been changed in a timely manner? The ignition points and dwell would be the first thing I would check.

Paul, The repro cranking signal valves have not been available for many years. Today we have rebuild originals that are better than when RP made them. John

[John D.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

Ed, We discussed this on the phone some. Is your distributor installed correctly. Sounds like you may be one tooth off. Is the distributor cap hold down hooks parallel with the firewall?
Why do you only have 12' of vacuum??? Sound like the incorrect camshaft. For example. My '63 FI car at 900 RPM has about 16" of vacuum. Duntov 097 with valve lash at 13-19.
Your spark plugs are black. And it's not the cranking signal valve. What causes a rich condtion on an FI unit?
Long list. Hard to type it all. Here is a few thing. Repro 091 coil???
Air meter tells the fuel meter what to do. Are the passage ways clean in the air meter? Do you have a seal on the main signal line going from air meter to o'ring?
Are ALL of the machined, etc castings flat? Did you use a machinists granite surface plate with sandpaper on it to resurface everything? Bottom of plenum. Top of plenum. Fuel meter bowl top. Main diaphragm cover!!!! Enrichment cover and backing plate.
Back of fuel bowl where hi-pressure pump attaches. Back side of air meter refinished. Etc
Air meter again: Is the vacuum line going from air meter to choke housing have issues. Do you have a "seal" on the line where it screws onto the choke housing? Here's one I see messed up a lot. Is the vacuum line from choke housing to air meter tight?Is it wiggling around. Is so vacuum leak.
Hows the spill valve. Sounds like the thumb tack and nail spill valve may be the issues. Cars sitting forever. Could the thumbtack be stuck. Could it be MISSING?
Inside the fuel meter bowl is a tiny brass, etc anti-siphon valve. Could it have blown out? Missing now. Sitting in bottom of fuel bowl?
Is the main diaphragm any good. Fresh or some old NOS hard one. I never see one with a hole in it.
Are your six plenum lid bolts tight? Aluminum washers under the bolts
Does the refinished bottom of plenum sit on the baseplate perfect with no gaskets? That's a big one that Jerry and I discussed.
Might need shims, etc?
Is the choke working? Butterfly ??
Is the PCV valve an issue? Leaking?
That's all I can say friend. Let me know. Thanks, John


I

[Don H.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

Yikes! With a list like that of things that can go haywire, it's amazing that any of them that are not freshly rebuilt will run at all!
Mine for instance.. I'm knocking wood right now.

[Edward G.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

John,

We have talked several times about my FI unit and I am amazed at how you are willing to talk and provide information. I am very grateful for your help. My problem is that I can only retain and process so much information. I try to work on the things you told me about but I forget half of them.
Your post is wonderful and will help me greatly, now I can print the post and reference it while I am working.
Again, thank you very much for your help.

Ed

[Edward G.]

Re: Minimizing unknowns

Jerry

When I bought the car the unit was working good(1977). Since then I have replaced gaskets, seals and diaphragms. I have recently cleaned the injectors and tested the injector flow on the bench. I have inspected the distributor to verify the gear dimple placement. The compression is around 180 on all cylinders. It's been a long time but I believe I reused the original camshaft and lifters. I did a static timing at 10* and also did a total advance timing of 35* @2500 RPM I have not had a professional look at the unit because most people who work on FI units have retired or are so swamped that wait times are longer than I care for. And then there is my stubbornness.

Ed

[G B.]

Re: I just dunno

Ed -

It sounds like you haven't seen the FI system working right since you rebuilt it.

Here are some wild guesses for quick cures of your "low power" problem. I would:

- install a set of new Autolite #295 spark plugs (they match the discontinued AC45 heat range)
- confirm the rubber advance limit bushing is still on the advance limit steel pin inside the distributor.
- set the initial spark advance at 800 rpm (with the vacuum advance disconnected) at 14 degrees BTDC.
- confirm the vacuum advance canister is labeled 201 or B22 and is working.
- confirm the vacuum advance canister is plumbed to the ported advance fitting on top of the FI air meter.
- confirm the vacuum advance canister is NOT activated at an 800 rpm idle speed.
- confirm that the enrichment diaphragm housing has no vacuum leaks.
- confirm that 9" of Mercury vacuum is required to hold the enrichment lever on the economy stop.
- confirm that the PCV valve is either an original AC 590 (or 590C) or a modern 590 reproduction with an owner-installed .090" restriction orifice in the hose end.

Then if these steps produce no improvement, and at great risk of offending your stubbornness, I suggest you hire a second set of knowledgeable eyes to help you inspect and calibrate your FI unit. To quote Lord Nelson... or maybe it was Popeye... "A man's got to know his limitations".

And I'm not soliciting your business. Good luck.

Jerry

[Edward G.]

Re: I just dunno

Jerry,

Wow! all good things. It looks like I have my work cut out for me I will be checking all of the things that you and John have mentioned.
So far not one person made a comment about the cam timing. I was going to pull the timing chain cover to verify the cam timing., but it looks like it's not an issue. If all else fails I will be seeking the help of a professional.
I want to thank all of those that have responded to my post., especially John DeGregory who has tolerated all my calls and answered the same questions over and over again.

I will post the findings when this problem is solved.

Ed

[Arland D.]

Re: I just dunno

"A man's got to know his limitations".

I believe that was said by Dirty Harry.

[John D.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

Ed, Don Hooper is correct. I got carried away with way too much info.
I really like Jerry Bramlett's info and it would work most wonderful if you had the correct cam.
Since you only have 12' of vacuum the spring in a 201 aka B22 is too strong. You won't ever achieve full advance.
Try this Ed. Use the 30-30 cam VA which is a 236 16. Or if you can find a much cheaper B28 use that.
So you have had your fuel injection car for 45 years. Cool. I have had mine for 43 years.
Even a carb won't last that long.
But sure would be nice if you could get your car to at least pull a hill without conking out. Here's something to try. Go to an auto store and buy an expensive brand of fuel injection cleaner. I don't know any brand names. Put that in your FRESH racing gas and maybe it will loosen up the accelerator pump aka Spill valve that most likely is sticking from varnish.
Say your car had a carb on it Ed. What would you and the gang think the problem is. On at least one of the problems. The carb accelerator pump is not doing its thing. Same theory on a fuel injection.

Jerry. Thanks for the tip about putting a .090 restrictor in the PCV hose. It's a life saver. John

[Edward G.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

John,

What is this .090 restrictor that goes in the PCV hose and where would I get one

Ed

[Duke W.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

I ordered my 340 HP SWC with a 3.08 axle because I wanted top speed and easy 80 MPH cruising, but it's not for the faint of heart.

It's like a five-speed with no first gear, so getting it going from a dead stop without riding the clutch is a black art.

The first thing you should do is raise the idle speed to 900-1200. The higher the idle speed the easier it is to get going from dead stop on level ground.

To start just let out the clutch a bit until revs drop off, which gets the car rolling, then declutch add some revs and ease it out.

Try to avoid hills, and on a steep driveway approach it with the clutch engaged and power up keeping revs above 800 or so.

You don't have to worry about the Two-Inch Rule because the '63 FI engine has ported vacuum advance. I recommend changing it to full time, and this MUST be accompanied by a 8" B28 or equivalent VAC.

So start with higher idle speed and try different mixture settings to see what works best.

Duke

[Edward G.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

Vacuum Advance.jpgDuke,

This is my first time posting pictures, Hope it takes.
My VAC is a 236, I don't know where the B28 number is. I have it Plumbed to the port on the air meter. When I bought the car it was plumbed to the air box. I moved it back to the air box/manifold and it did not make a difference. The VAC is not the same one that came with the car when I drove and it worked ok at that time. This one has a 16 stamping on it maybe that could be my problem.

Ed

[Edward G.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

PCV fitting.jpg
John,

Should this fitting for the PCV valve have a restriction?

[John D.]

Re: 63 FI stalls under load

Ed, Nice that you have the 236 with your lower engine vacuum
B27 is an auto store replacement. If you can find one.

[Edward G.]

Re: I just dunno

Jerry,

When I bought the car it was equipped with a vent tube crankcase vent which I replaced with the PCV setup. This might be my problem, there seems to be quite a bit of flow through the PCV valve. How do I install the .090 restriction in the hose. Is this something I make or something that I buy.

Ed