72 Ontario Orange paint question

[Fred H.]

We re-painted our LT1 as part of the recent restoration. Current computer technology color matching was used to achieve a paint product consistant with OEM Ontario Orange in both color shade & metallic characteristics. Fortunately we used a borrowed windshield wiper grille from a un-restored Ontario Orange survivor 72 Corvette in assisting accurate color matching.

The single stage "color matched" 1972 Ontario Orange paint was used to re-paint the LT1, and we believe the re-painted finish resulted in both color shade & metallic consistent to a 1972 OEM Corvette finish. Recognizing and expecting to receive a standard deduction for paint originality/over restored related judging,

Obviously it wasn't possible to compare our re-paint results to one of the original "Color Standard" paint sample plates submitted to the St Louis plant by both Dupont and PPG for approval and quality control during the 1972 Corvette production period. Hopefully someone can help inform us regarding the method used by the NCRS to determine OEM paint originality.

If possible it would be great to know if the 1972 Corvette Dupont color chip 5293-L or 1972 Corvette Ditzier /PPG color chip 2358 paint chip catalogs accurate enough for judging purposes?

See eBay listings 224844834947 and 133014767344 for reference.

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[Terry M.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

Fred
The paint chip catalogs are ink printed on paper. Any similarity to the original paint is coincidental.

Some NCRS Exterior judges have the paint samples you refer to, but their use is discouraged. None-the-less I have seen them on the show field from time to time. The assessment of shade and metallic reflictance is, for the most part, by eyeball. If you decide to campaign the car (and that is what your question leads me to believe) you may eventually find your car at an event with an original paint car. In that situation any difference will be obvious.

I don't need to tell you that Ontario Orange is one of the more difficult colors to duplicate. It was billed as a "Firemist" color. Duplicating that with today's materials is a real challenge.

[Ray K.]

[Patrick H.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question



You realize that you just caused chest pains in certain members.
Now if you could describe the differences that would be interesting.

PH

[Owen L.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

The assessment of shade and metallic reflectance is, for the most part, by eyeball. If you decide to campaign the car (and that is what your question leads me to believe) you may eventually find your car at an event with an original paint car. In that situation any difference will be obvious.

In my opinion, that doesn't mean the original paint car is accurate to factory appearance either. Is there consideration that a 50 year old paint will not be exact an exact color to what it looked like when new? Anything that wasn't stored in a dark container is subject to shade and tone change over time. In addition, was a Firemist absolutely consistent over the model year - by current computer color technology?

As someone who was born color-challenged I don't envy anyone attempting to color match over a half-century later.

[Sal C.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

Back in the dark ages when NCRS and Bloomington Gold would always have full 10 car fields, it was not uncommon to see multiple cars with original paint of the same color having differing shades.

[Terry M.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

You realize that you just caused chest pains in certain members.
Now if you could describe the differences that would be interesting.

PH

No heartburn for those of us with original paint Ontario Orange.

[Terry M.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

In my opinion, that doesn't mean the original paint car is accurate to factory appearance either. Is there consideration that a 50 year old paint will not be exact an exact color to what it looked like when new? Anything that wasn't stored in a dark container is subject to shade and tone change over time. In addition, was a Firemist absolutely consistent over the model year - by current computer color technology?

As someone who was born color-challenged I don't envy anyone attempting to color match over a half-century later.

Owen
In reality the computer color match system do not exactly match original paint. Part of that is due to the different paint materials available today (or another way to put it is the materials available 50 years ago are not the same materials available today). The computer match systems will get you close, but not exact.

You are right about the age effects. The differences in storage details can create different shade effects due to different levels of deterioration. Some of us do store our original paint cars in unlighted conditions for exactly the reasons you cite. Storage in climate controlled conditions limits the deterioration of the fiberglass and paint. There is much more to preserving a Bow Tie/Benchmark car than just parking it. That, however, is a whole different subject which NCRS, generally, fails to address.

[Fred H.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

We appreciate all of the knowledgeable responses to our Ontario Orange query. Our goal was to more clearly understand the demining standards and thought process used when judging a 72 Ontario Orange car that was repainted. We accept that it would be very challenging to accurately duplicate the exact factory original Ontario Orange paint 50 years later. It is our understanding that there were varying degrees of inconsistencies of Fire Mist Ontario Orange painted cars at the St Louis.
We were hoping that our Fire Mist Ontario Orange repaint might qualify to receive the 30 % originality judging deduction verses a 70% originality deduction, as outlined for Body Paint on pages 46 & 47 of the 9^th Edition of the NCRS Corvette Judging Reference Manual.

[David H.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

We appreciate all of the knowledgeable responses to our Ontario Orange query. Our goal was to more clearly understand the demining standards and thought process used when judging a 72 Ontario Orange car that was repainted. We accept that it would be very challenging to accurately duplicate the exact factory original Ontario Orange paint 50 years later. It is our understanding that there were varying degrees of inconsistencies of Fire Mist Ontario Orange painted cars at the St Louis.
We were hoping that our Fire Mist Ontario Orange repaint might qualify to receive the 30 % originality judging deduction verses a 70% originality deduction, as outlined for Body Paint on pages 46 & 47 of the 9^th Edition of the NCRS Corvette Judging Reference Manual.

Fred

This thread has been about COLOR. Color is judged by Standard Deduction Guideline #10 (JRM page 46).

Your reference to PAINT is SDG #11 and deals with application and material appearance.

Dave

[Fred H.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

OK, FYI we recieved a judging deduction (#1 on the ncrs exterior sheet re: Body Paint originality) for "metallic content NTP (standard deduction 70%) ?

[Don H.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

Fred,
strange things happen at Chapter meets. And sometimes at Regional meets too. Body Color is the first scoring line on the EXT sheet. Metallic NTP deductions are supposed to happen in the Body Color line, not the Body Paint line. And the deduction is supposed to be 50%. 50% of 85 pts. is 42 points. There is no 70% deduction in the Standard Deductions for Body Color. Only in Body Paint. If a judge took 70% deduct in Color for Metallic, that was an error.

[Fred H.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

Don, thanks for your comments

[Terry M.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

Ray
Let's work on getting several original paint Ontario Orange cars together. My car is March 18, 1971 (on the trim tag) and I suspect the earlier shade, but who knows. If we could find someone with a 1972, I think it would be worth getting the cars together. I am very interested in that experiment.

[Brady C.]

Re: 72 Ontario Orange paint question

Thank goodness have an original Corvette bronze as sure seems easier than Ontario Orange!!!