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  • Jack M.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • March 1, 1991
    • 1155

    #46
    Re: Tank sticker

    PREFACE: This discussion is specific to the C2 years of Corvette, and mainly for 1967 TANK STICKERS (as some paperwork changed over time). Letz not forget that 'similar' paperwork was shipped as a 'Corvette Order' form in the glovebox, in addition to the 'Car Shipper' document. Typically, the dealer removed that paperwork for their own files... but fortunately, many C2 examples still exist (observed below, in the attachments).

    Reading the text in this thread, I assumed (bad word) that many folkz believed the hand written number on the Tank Sticker, was a MATCH to the Job Number (written in crayon on various body panels). In the past, some members have even posted images of their 1967 STL Job Number, and it did NOT seem to have ANY relationship to the hand written number on the Tank Sticker. Via private emails, I was attempting to confirm more relationships between hand written numbers on Tank Stickers, with the Job Number... nothing conclusive, yet.

    As mentioned previously, I'd find it near impossible for AOS vehicles (with MIXED Job Numbers on the assembly line), to 'magically' fit into the assembly line, with a MATCHING hand written number on the Tank Sticker, and also corresponding to the VIN. Furthermore (searching the TDB), I've recently discovered that all AOS Job Numbers had a single 'LETTER' preceding the 1-500 Job Number:
    .
    Penned by Donald Terry (on 10-8-2007):
    STL cars have 3 digit body numbers 1-500 as you indicated. AOS cars have a letter designation followed by 1-500. I would double check and see if the first digit is actually a letter and not a number. The pic below is my 65 AOS car with job number Q189. AOS body numbers ran A1-500, B1-500, C1-500, etc. There is additional info in the archives as well.
    (https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ody-Job-Number)


    Looking at major articles penned by John Hinckley (published in 2003 & 2006), he didn't seem certain on some items... and did NOT repeat some aspects, in future articles. By no means am I attempting to take away from his FANTASTIC legacy... instead, I'm just indicating this particular subject is not an exact science, and seems to have morphed over time.

    For example:
    1) In his first Restorer article on this subject, JohnZ wrote:
    .
    "The number most frequently seen hand-written (and sometimes circled) near the top of the 1967 and later Corvette Order Copy (tank sticker, if you will) is a derivative of the car's VIN, which was not available at the time the Order Copy was generated."

    2) But in a later article, I believe that text was removed. Additionally, this conversation took part on CorvetteForum (back in 2014):
    .
    Correct me if I am wrong, but each car has a number 1-500 HAND written on the tank sticker. This # also appears on the doors (seen with the door panel removed) and also on the passengers side foot well outside below the heater core box. The # also is written on the rear of the body in front of the gas tank. Sometimes these #'s are covered with paint or grease. My 66 does not have a tank sticker as they started in 67. The doors have the #350E it has power windows. Am I correct in this understanding, as I also have # 350 in the places indicated above. Thanks

    JohnZ:
    That's the "Body Shop Job Number", which is unrelated to any other numbers on the car.

    So it does NOT appear on the tank sticker of a 67?

    JohnZ:
    Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, but only as a handwritten number - not part of the computerized record for the car. The handwritten number on the tank sticker is also thought to be the Final Assembly Sequence Number, which locked it in sequence from where it was loaded on the Hard Trim Line (where it got its VIN and trim tag) to the end of the Final Line, where it was driven off to Roll Test.
    .
    So what exactly is that hand written number on Tank Stickers... is it actually a Job Number, and/or is it somewhat related to the VIN? The answers do NOT appear to be 100% certain, but John Hinckley alludes to other possibilities... mainly focused on the SEQUENCE number, and itz relationship to the VIN. Attached are two articles for your review... both penned by John Hinckley, which 'might' help to answer questions regarding 1967 Tank Stickers.
    Attached Files

    Comment

    • Michael J.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • January 27, 2009
      • 7122

      #47
      Re: Tank sticker

      Well, I guess the mystery continues. But John does say this: "The number most frequently seen hand-written (and sometimes circled) near the top of the 1967 and later Corvette Order Copy (tank sticker, if you will) is a derivative of the car's VIN, which was not available at the time the Order Copy was generated. The actual VIN appeared pre-printed on the Order Copy in later years, beginning during 197 I production." But the situation, as in my '67, where the number written on the back of the interior bulkhead, and the outside passenger side floorboard area, is the same as the number written and circled on the tank sticker, is still not addressed.
      Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

      Comment

      • Jack M.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • March 1, 1991
        • 1155

        #48
        Re: Tank sticker

        Mike- In 1967 (given the info we have - especially with the AOS work stoppage), I would actually expect to see many correlations between the panel Job Numbers and the hand written number on the Tank Sticker. With far fewer assembly line 'interruptions' from AOS builds, cars progressed in order... and the SEQUENCE number would most likely follow alone. Kinda makes sense to me... but I was never in St Louis, and have been wrong many times in my life.

        If 1967 owners were to list there VIN, Job Numbers, and hand written number on the Tank Sticker, we'd have a better overview of the situation (but I'm NOT requesting this - I value confidentially). I've seen some data via the search function, and had a few people email their information... there is a decent 'scattering' of related numbers, but some are off by hundreds.

        Comment

        • Donald S.
          Very Frequent User
          • August 31, 1996
          • 186

          #49
          Re: Tank sticker

          Jack,
          Another one to add to your list:
          67 AOS Coupe
          VIN 1513 (Sept 66)
          Job number on tank sticker: 12

          Dontank sticker .jpg

          Comment

          • Owen L.
            Very Frequent User
            • September 30, 1991
            • 868

            #50
            Re: Tank sticker

            Originally posted by Jack Morocco (18851)
            If 1967 owners were to list there VIN, Job Numbers, and hand written number on the Tank Sticker, we'd have a better overview of the situation (but I'm NOT requesting this - I value confidentially). I've seen some data via the search function, and had a few people email their information... there is a decent 'scattering' of related numbers, but some are off by hundreds.
            I don't know the crayon job markings on the car itself, but here are the VIN & tank sheets:
            1967 Tank Sheet.jpg1967 POP Info Protection Booklet.jpg

            Comment

            • Mark F.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • July 31, 1998
              • 1529

              #51
              Re: Tank sticker

              Originally posted by Donald Smith (28087)
              Jack, Another one to add to your list: 67 AOS Coupe VIN 1513 (Sept 66) Job number on tank sticker: 12 Don
              Hi Don,

              Thanks for posting your Order Copy (aka Tank Sticker )
              Would you be willing to post another image showing all the top fields as shown below?
              Ident. No.; Date Received; Exp. Date of Prod.; Order Number... etc...

              Tank Sticker top fields Ident No. etc.jpg

              I'm just curious about the numbers and timeframes for those fields compared to some I have from St. Louis...
              thanks in advance...
              thx,
              Mark

              Comment

              • Owen L.
                Very Frequent User
                • September 30, 1991
                • 868

                #52
                Re: Tank sticker

                I'm curious why the top left corner of a number of tank sheets is torn away. It's reminiscent of a stapled corner but I wouldn't think these originated in a stapled stack. Maybe?

                Comment

                • Mark F.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • July 31, 1998
                  • 1529

                  #53
                  Re: Tank sticker

                  Originally posted by Jack Morocco (18851)
                  Penned by Donald Terry (on 10-8-2007):
                  STL cars have 3 digit body numbers 1-500 as you indicated. AOS cars have a letter designation followed by 1-500. I would double check and see if the first digit is actually a letter and not a number. The pic below is my 65 AOS car with job number Q189. AOS body numbers ran A1-500, B1-500, C1-500, etc. There is additional info in the archives as well.
                  (https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ody-Job-Number)
                  Per Jack's quote of Donald Terry, it seems to me Dow-Smith (formerly AOS) had a better body job number tracking system than St. Louis.

                  If Donald was correct, as stated above every AOS body had a UNIQUE Body Job Number - not just a repeating series of 1 to 500 as used at St. Louis.

                  Having read Larry Galloway's book (and looking forward to the next one), my GUESS is Dow-Smith (essentially a sub-contractor "Vendor" to GM) wanted more traceability on their products because of the "deficiency reports" and associated rework charges (short-pays?) that came back from St. Louis.

                  And, I'm guessing because of their uniqueness, those bodies could more easily be identified with an exact shift (and possible QA issues if there were any?) when they were made.

                  With Don's AOS Body Job Number Q189 (8,189th) and the photo of the other AOS Body Job Number P77 in Harry's post (7,577th), we can conclude the exact sequence of those Body Builds in Ionia as shown below.

                  Too bad we can't see the job number ahead of the P77 shot - I'll bet it was P76...who knows for sure, eh?


                  Dow-Smith Body Job Numbering System.jpg
                  thx,
                  Mark

                  Comment

                  • Jack M.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • March 1, 1991
                    • 1155

                    #54
                    Re: Tank sticker

                    THANX to everyone for your contributions to this thread... unfortunately, I believe there might be a little confusion taking place.
                    If you haven't read the articles I've posted, there appears to be conflicting 'terminology' for the HAND WRITTEN number on the Tank Stickers.
                    In my opinion (which is often useless), I do NOT believe that number is designed to 'represent' the crayon marked body Job Number.
                    That hand written pencil number 'may' coincide with the crayon Job Numbers, but it would be purely coincidental... NOT planned.

                    For now, letz concede a belief that the hand written number on the 1967 Tank Sticker is close to the VIN... and explain how it may have happened.
                    And letz not forget the several months of 1967 Corvette work stoppage at AOS, when all bodies were built at St Louis.

                    As an example, letz take this 'simplified' scenario for 1967 Corvette production:
                    • When bodies are constructed in St Louis, the CRAYON marked Job Number assures that proper panels go together korrectly.
                      (coupe doors need to go with the corresponding coupe roof, etc)
                    • By 1967, I'd hope that the paint & body shop were running far more efficiently... so fewer are pulled out of order.
                    • When the proper body needs to eventually meet the prepared chassis, a NEW procedure is now scheduled.
                      (at this point, the old crayon Job Number is totally unnecessary/useless for the rest of the build... fuggedaboutit)
                    • The new mating/scheduling procedure involves a SEQUENCE NUMBER (3-digits max)... identified on the 'secret' BROADCAST COPY.
                      (this item is later tossed out... very few remain for Corvette)
                    • Therez both a Body & Chassis Broadcast Copy... it needz to identify the upcoming VIN, Key Numbers, more options & sub assemblies.
                    • We now have a relationship between SEQUENCE and VIN numbers... mating them together, regardless of any future assembly line 'fixes'.
                    • If the build went PERFECTLY, the crayon Job Number could MATCH the hand written Sequence Number, as well as the VIN.
                      (the far majority are off by a couple digits)
                    • But when AOS bodies came back online and added to the assembly line mix, how can ALL these numbers now 'magically' match up?
                      (as AOS had their own UNIQUE body panel Job Numbers... perhaps marked with crayon or magic marker)
                      (and the AOS bodies were NOT 'finished' in St Louis in the EXACT same order, as they were built at AOS)


                    So if these numbers are somehow important enough to create/keep a spreadsheet, we need to track the appropriate 1967 data:
                    1. The body panel crayon Job Number
                    2. The hand written pencil number on the Tank Sticker
                    3. The VIN
                    4. AOS or St Louis build

                    If my theory is korrect, there is NO need to post any photos/stickers... we'd just need the DATA, and SOMEONE willing to compile it.
                    This is just one crazy-arse opinion... but without ALL those factors, I believe we'd just be spinning our wheelz.
                    (Mark Francis has graciously volunteered to create and maintain the database... THANX, Mark!)

                    But first, PLEASE read the wonderful/insightful PDF articles I've previously posted (written by John Hinckley).
                    And if you followed along and believed my theory... perhaps further discussion has been rendered moot.

                    NOTE: Below is an example of a BODY Broadcast Copy... with the highlighted SEQUENCE Number.
                    This was not for a Corvette, but simply provided to give you a reasonable understanding.
                    (image borrowed from: http://chevellestuff.net/1967/bs.htm)

                    Body Broadcast Copy (chevellestuff).jpg

                    Comment

                    • Donald S.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • August 31, 1996
                      • 186

                      #55
                      Re: Tank sticker

                      Originally posted by Mark Francis (30800)
                      Hi Don,

                      Thanks for posting your Order Copy (aka Tank Sticker )
                      Would you be willing to post another image showing all the top fields as shown below?
                      Ident. No.; Date Received; Exp. Date of Prod.; Order Number... etc...

                      I'm just curious about the numbers and timeframes for those fields compared to some I have from St. Louis...
                      thanks in advance...
                      Mark,
                      It's difficult to read but here it is:
                      tank sticker top.jpg

                      No clue on the exp date of production. I have the same issue with the dealer information; doesn't match what the NCRS shipping report says. Never fails that the information that's important is difficult to make out.
                      Don
                      Last edited by Donald S.; April 22, 2022, 08:50 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Patrick B.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • August 31, 1985
                        • 1995

                        #56
                        Re: Tank sticker

                        Jack-- the crayon number on the doors of my 67 was 107, while the number written on the tank sticker was 317 and the vin 14319.

                        Comment

                        • Mark F.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • July 31, 1998
                          • 1529

                          #57
                          Re: Tank sticker

                          Originally posted by Donald Smith (28087)
                          Mark, It's difficult to read but here it is...No clue on the exp date of production. I have the same issue with the dealer information; doesn't match what the NCRS shipping report says. Never fails that the information that's important is difficult to make out. Don
                          Hi Don,

                          Thanks very much!
                          Wow - order received 6-30-66 ~two months before production started for '67s...
                          I zoomed in on your Expected date of production and it looks to me like it's "09-30-66". Whatever it is, it probably had to be a September date because that's when the first fully-assembled '67s started rolling off the line.

                          As John Hinckley said, nobody knew why they pasted these on top of the gas tank - it's amazing how many of them have survived - and some with very good readability in all fields!
                          thx,
                          Mark

                          Comment

                          • Mark F.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • July 31, 1998
                            • 1529

                            #58
                            Re: Tank sticker

                            Originally posted by Patrick Boyd (9110)
                            Jack-- the crayon number on the doors of my 67 was 107, while the number written on the tank sticker was 317 and the vin 14319.
                            319) minus the Tank Sticker No. (317) is only 2; while the Last 3 of the VIN (319) minus the Body Panel Chalked/Marked Nos. (107) is 212. This is at least one example (IMO) where the Tank Sticker handwritten number (317the truth is out there, all you have to do is find it!Jack's data Request for '67 Tank Stickers and Job-Sequence Numbers_001.jpg
                            thx,
                            Mark

                            Comment

                            • Leif A.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • August 31, 1997
                              • 3630

                              #59
                              Re: Tank sticker

                              Mark et al,
                              Anyway we can make this thread a "sticky". This is going to grow and easy access down the road would be ideal. Also, are you going to be combining your new list with Jack's list? Thanks.
                              Leif
                              '67 Coupe L79, M21, C60, N14, N40, J50, A31, U69, A01, QB1
                              Top Flight 2017 Lone Star Regional

                              Comment

                              • Michael J.
                                Extremely Frequent Poster
                                • January 27, 2009
                                • 7122

                                #60
                                Re: Tank sticker

                                Mark, the '67 I have now has the last 3 of the VIN, the number hand written and circled on the tank sticker, and the number written on the lower body areas all the same. My previous one, the one where I posted the tank sticker here, had the VIN and hand written number circled on the tank sticker off by 502.
                                Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                                Comment

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