C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

[Don L.]

Hi all. I've searched the archives to avoid having to post here, but after searching the archives, I think I'm more confused than before I started.

Here's the issue:
Working on a '66 coupe, preparing it for the upcoming Greenville Regional. When the headlight switch is activated, the buckets rotate approximately halfway then stop. When I press the switch again, the buckets sometimes go the rest of the way up and sometimes they go a bit more then stop again. After a couple or few presses of the switch, both buckets are fully opened. When closing the buckets, they sometimes go all the way down on first press and sometimes they need more presses of the switch to close completely.

Archived threads talk about the rocker switch and some talk about the micro switch being the culprit, however, I didn't see an archived thread that fit my problem exactly.

Based on these symptoms, does anyone have any ideas/advice on what is going on and what needs to be done to get the buckets to fully open and fully close with just one press of the rocker switch?

Thanks for looking. Hoping someone can help.
Thanks

[Edward J.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

Don, the system has a circuit breaker, it’s sounds like it being over loaded? Once it cools down it is back in operation.I know the motors sometimes slow down in the opening and closing because the motors grease hardens on the gears.,Have they been cleaned and re-greased? Or it possible the circuit breaker may just be bad.

[Larry M.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

Don:

I would try two things:

1. Remove one of the motor connections and see if that makes a difference. The electrical load should be 1/2 of what it was before. I would also reinstall that motor plug and then disconnect and test the other motor. Just in case one motor is the issue with high electrical load.

2. Use a homemade jumper from battery to each motor( one at a time) to see if each headlight will rotate full open and close. This bypasses both the switch and the circuit breaker and the bulkhead connector. But DO NOT make or break the electrical connection at the motor. Use a short piece of wire away from the motor to do this, as any electrical arcing could burn up or damage a motor spade connector. I think I used a 12-18 inch piece of 12 gage electrical wire with terminals on each end and a jumper cable from the battery. Then touched the wire lead free terminal to the battery cable clamp to make the connection.

Larry

EDIT: When using a jumper wire, remember one connector on the motor OPENS the headlight and the other motor lead CLOSES the headlight. So figure out which one you need for the test............or leave the headlight half open to start with to identify the specific connectors. The motor is grounded thru the ground wire and frame.

[John D.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

When the buckets were balky on my 67 I disassembled the rocker switch on the dash and cleaned the contacts with emery and the problem was solved. Later I replaced the drive gears and cleaned and lubed the motors which helped a lot with the speed.

[Norm B.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

My similar problem turned out to be wear on both the contacts in the switch and the corners of the block inside the switch that moved them. The switch would only work consistently if I used a fair bit of inward pressure when using it to rotate the buckets and I found that I was unconsciously easing up on the pressure on the switch before the rotation was completed. Try pushing the rocker into the switch to put more pressure on it while they are rotating to see if it helps at all. If it does then it's likely the switch. To test it carefully remove the connector from the switch, I say carefully because it is not the most robust item on the car. Then use a piece of wire as a jumper at the connector effectively by-passing the switch. I used a piece of 14 gauge solid house type wire. I believe the center connection is the hot one. Cleaning the contacts inside the switch solved the problem for me for a couple of years but I eventually had to replace the switch due to the internal wear. Once upon a time the internals were available as a kit from LIC but that was many years ago and I have been unable to find a source for a kit for several years.

[Mark F.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

My similar problem turned out to be wear on both the contacts in the switch and the corners of the block inside the switch that moved them. The switch would only work consistently if I used a fair bit of inward pressure when using it to rotate the buckets and I found that I was unconsciously easing up on the pressure on the switch before the rotation was completed. Try pushing the rocker into the switch to put more pressure on it while they are rotating to see if it helps at all. If it does then it's likely the switch. To test it carefully remove the connector from the switch, I say carefully because it is not the most robust item on the car. Then use a piece of wire as a jumper at the connector effectively by-passing the switch. I used a piece of 14 gauge solid house type wire. I believe the center connection is the hot one. Cleaning the contacts inside the switch solved the problem for me for a couple of years but I eventually had to replace the switch due to the internal wear. Once upon a time the internals were available as a kit from LIC but that was many years ago and I have been unable to find a source for a kit for several years.

I agree with everything Norm has said 100%

I had the exact same problem on mine...so, I bypassed the switch (I used a 12 gauge jumper) and my buckets rolled up and down like I had never seen them do before!

The problem is there's a fair amount of current in that circuit (hence the in-line breaker) and when the up/down contact pins get close to mating - they arc and can crater and/or spew out (spall?) material on the contact point - thus reducing contact area.

IMO the switch is very poorly designed. I have had mine apart to resurface and reassemble twice - and now, it looks like I'll have to do it again...pretty soon the housing will crack - be very careful if you decide to take yours apart. Good Luck!

[Don L.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

Thanks to all for the impressive sharing of experience on this issue. I think I'll look into disassembling and cleaning contacts as my first step.

A couple follow up questions after listing some assumptions/takeaways for this thread. Please correct me if I have something listed incorrectly

1. Replacing the original rocker switch with a modern reproduction switch is not a good idea because most reproduction switches are of poor quality.
2. Much care needs to be exercised when disassembling the original rocker switch. Are there any specific warnings I should be aware of as I do this?
3. When I disassemble the rocker switch and go to jump the wires so that I can bypass the switch, which wires (color) and I looking to jump? I have a wiring schematic coming to help.

Thanks again for the help on this.

[Norm B.]

Re: C2 Headlight Operation Failure Help - PLEASE?

Hi Don,

My car is in storage right now so I can't readily get at it to look but here is what I remember;

1. I used a modern reproduction switch for a replacement several years ago and have had no issues. Now the switch has not had a lot of use as it's not that often that I am out after dark with the car. I think the main issue is with the appearance for judging.

2. Be careful first on removing the connector from the back of the switch. There are two spring clips that hold it to the switch body and as I said before that connector is not the most robust part of the car. When disassembling the switch you will see that on each side of it there is a small hole that you use to release those clips from the body of the switch itself. Push a paper clip or similar into those holes and pull the clips out of the switch body. Where you also need to be careful is that several years ago I could not find a source for replacement clips although they may be available now. It's all pretty self evident once you get the switch in your hand.

3. Try the jumping before you disassemble the switch. Once you get the connector unhooked from the switch you will see it is actually the female side of the connection. The center contact is hot all the time, the contacts on either side are for open and close. I pushed a 14 gauge solid wire into the center contact first then the other end of the wire into one of the side contacts. You will see soon enough which side is for open and which side is for close. As Mark said about his, you may see them roll up and down like you have never seen before. I experienced the same thing with mine.

Norm