72 NCRS correct filters

[Steve L.]

I had my 1972 "CKX" engine code base 200 hp 350 cu. in. - automatic - roadster judged at the last meet. Judges did not like my PF25 ACDelco oil filter. They also did not like my AC type A329C air filter element. I am looking for guidance on a vendor that might offer the filters the NCRS is looking for. Judges at the show did not comment when I ask them? Thanks in advance.

[Edward J.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Steve, I do not believe you will find a correct reproduced Oil or Air filter, a original Oil or Air filter will set you back $$$.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

"Judges at the show did not comment when I ask them?" - Can you explain?

What filters are currently on your car?

The judging guide shows what was originally installed. As Ed notes, there are no air filters that are anywhere near correct. The reproduction oil filters at least look mostly correct, but still have their issues.

[Steve L.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Your bowtie pics were very helpful in my rebuild. Thanks for the links to it I have used that link many times in the past year. The oil filter I used was a PF25 and it looked exactly as the judging guide ask. They still hit it for 8 points and some of the judges that were not on that section claimed that was excessive. As far as the air cleaner - No one seems to make it. The guide says it should be an A212CW filter but they do not fit the base engine filter housing. The A329C filter element is listed in the guide and it does fit the housing. Judges said it did not say AC Delco on it and that it was not correct. At first they took 20 points for it, but after a second look they lowered the deduct to 10 points and told me to spend more money to get a correct one. No judges could tell where to get a correct one no matter how much I spent. Two months later and I'm still looking.

[Joe L.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Your bowtie pics were very helpful in my rebuild. Thanks for the links to it I have used that link many times in the past year. The oil filter I used was a PF25 and it looked exactly as the judging guide ask. They still hit it for 8 points and some of the judges that were not on that section claimed that was excessive. As far as the air cleaner - No one seems to make it. The guide says it should be an A212CW filter but they do not fit the base engine filter housing. The A329C filter element is listed in the guide and it does fit the housing. Judges said it did not say AC Delco on it and that it was not correct. At first they took 20 points for it, but after a second look they lowered the deduct to 10 points and told me to spend more money to get a correct one. No judges could tell where to get a correct one no matter how much I spent. Two months later and I'm still looking.

Steve------


Your 1972 L-48 engine used the A329C; 1972 LT-1 used the A212C.

Here's a more-or-less correct example. Would I pay this price for it? Not a chance.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153435627501?epid=1223669322&hash=item23b979dfed:g:TqQAAOSw3CdcoTxt

[Gary B.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

As I type this, a correct AC PF25 oil filter is listed on Ebay. Expensive? $149.99 Only you can answer that.
Oil Filters have 8-points originality. Using CDCIF, you would loose 20% for configuration and 20% for Date, about 3-points if you have a reproduction oil filter.

Air filter elements are hard to find. Keep looking. The A329C with the square pattern are very hard to find. If you find one the does not say "Best Way To..", that can be fixed. Watch Ebay, they pop up occasionally.
Again, using CDCIF, you would loose 20% for configuration and 20% for Date for a aftermarket filter. The silkscreen is judged separate of the filter element. 3-points for the silkscreen and 5-points for the filter element. The wrong silk screen on the filter would be 40% of 3-points, or 1-point max. A wrong element would be 40% of 5-points, 2-point maximum.

Keep looking, they are out there. Patience.

Gary B

[Paul B.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Steve------


Your 1972 L-48 engine used the A329C; 1972 LT-1 used the A212C.

Here's a more-or-less correct example. Would I pay this price for it? Not a chance.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15343562750...QAAOSw3CdcoTxt

...even though I don't think that's exactly the one the judges want to see, it's probably the least point deduction one out there and I have 1/2 dozen of those. I believe the "real" one that they want to see says "Best Way To Protect...." and the wire is "square mesh". I sold a mint used one of those probably 15yrs ago for $250 at Corvettes @ Carlisle.

[David L.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

I had the NOS A329C air cleaner as shown below but sold it about 10 years ago.
Dave

[Gary C.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Steve,

You can always appeal a Judge's point deduction to the Chapter Judging Chairman for a Chapter Judging Event and to the National Team Leader, Chapter Judging Chairman or National Judging Chairman at a Regional Judging Event.

Always best to not argue, but to pursue clarification. As Gary Bosselman points out, it would be good to familiarize yourself with CDCIF in the Judging Reference Manual

Gary
....

[Leonard M.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

I hit Steve's profile and from what I saw, I'd say that Steve is not a complainer. Someone like him has a lot of knowledge (see below) and it looks like he was treated unfairly on the "disposable" parts judging. Gary's assessment looks fair with 3 points loss on each, not the 8 and 10 that he got. It's possible that judge needs to go to "re-education camp". At the least it looks like those extra point deductions did not prevent his top flight award.
I don't know Steve, but he appears to be a humble honest guy.
Flight Awards:
1972 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Top Flight) at 2021 Lone Star Regional (Regional) at 10-22-2021
1972 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Third Flight) at New Orleans Deep South Regional (Regional) at 09-20-2013
1982 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Top Flight) at 2011 Lone Star Regional Meet (Regional) at 10-28-2011
1958 Corvette: Duntov Award at San Antonio TX in 2006
1958 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Top Flight) at San Antonio TX (National) in 2006
1958 Corvette: Performance Verification Award at Kissimmee FL in 2006
1958 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Top Flight) at Cincinnati OH (Regional) in 2005
1958 Corvette: Longest Trailered Award at Cincinnati OH in 2005
1957 Corvette: Duntov Award at Hershey PA in 2003
1957 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Top Flight) at St. Louis MO (Regional) in 2003
1957 Corvette: Flight Judging Award (Top Flight) at Hershey PA (National) in 2003
1957 Corvette: Performance Verification Award at Seven Springs PA in 2003

[Patrick H.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

I sold a mint used one of those probably 15yrs ago for $250 at Corvettes @ Carlisle.

I remember that filter.
Unfortunately they're twice that price now.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Judges said it did not say AC Delco on it and that it was not correct. At first they took 20 points for it, but after a second look they lowered the deduct to 10 points and told me to spend more money to get a correct one. No judges could tell where to get a correct one no matter how much I spent. Two months later and I'm still looking.

There are a maximum of 15 points for the filter.
3 originality and 2 condition for the wording, 5 each originality and condition for the element itself.
The A329C you buy today looks nothing like the originals, so it's possible to get a heavy deduction if that's what you had.

As noted, you can buy a replacement from the mid/late 70s that is still oil wetted, has some of the lettering, and other attributes of an original. However, it will have diamond mesh as opposed to the square that the judges expect. It's also about 10% of the cost of a real 1972 air filter. That would be the most cost effective strategy.

Like Gary said, originals are rare. I think you may be looking a lot more than 2 months if you want a "real" one.

[Steve L.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

As Leonard Mankowski points out I am not a complainer. Quite the opposite, I enjoyed the judging experience in Frisco quite a bit. I spent many enjoyable hours rebuilding that 72. I have owned it for 19 years and I thought it deserved a good restoration. My wife was more upset than anyone because she watched me work on it so much and she wanted the world for me, you gotta love that. For me I wanted to have guys that know a lot more about C3's than me review my work and give me a punch list of the items that need to be improved on. My goal is to take it to the Nationals for the 50 year anniversary, in some category yet to be determined. Rather than complain I reached out to this group because I did not gather good info on the filters at Frisco. But you kind gentlemen have filled in the blanks nicely. Thanks to Joe Lucia (who found the best example I've seen). I thank you all for your assistance. I will save my "complaints" for another day. LOL! On to step two - performance verification! ouch !

[Gary C.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

Steve,

It was not my intention to indicate that you were a complainer. It was a generic statement on how to appeal judging deductions.

Gary
....

[Joe L.]

Re: 72 NCRS correct filters

There are a maximum of 15 points for the filter.
3 originality and 2 condition for the wording, 5 each originality and condition for the element itself.
The A329C you buy today looks nothing like the originals, so it's possible to get a heavy deduction if that's what you had.

As noted, you can buy a replacement from the mid/late 70s that is still oil wetted, has some of the lettering, and other attributes of an original. However, it will have diamond mesh as opposed to the square that the judges expect. It's also about 10% of the cost of a real 1972 air filter. That would be the most cost effective strategy.

Like Gary said, originals are rare. I think you may be looking a lot more than 2 months if you want a "real" one.

Patrick-----

I'm not convinced that the "square pattern" perimeter screen was exclusively used during the period. I think this might be a case of "if it's really hard to find it must be what we're looking for and what judges want to see". In other words, the old "treasure hunt mentality".