1958 Date Stamp Question

[Bryan K.]

Hello all. I recently inhereted my grandfathers '58 Vette that he has owned since the 70's. He never did much to it and barely put 2k miles on it in the time he owned it. I have the original ad in the paper he cut out as well. A woman named Donna sold it to him and it called out "original motor and transmission".

The engine casting number is correct but the date pad is confusing me. It looks like it reads F127CF but I know that CF should read CT.... the car's VIN puts it at a late Jan build so the F127 part all makes sense. Am I looking at this wrong or did the stamp just not make good contact on the other side of the T?

[David H.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Hello all. I recently inhereted my grandfathers '58 Vette that he has owned since the 70's. He never did much to it and barely put 2k miles on it in the time he owned it. I have the original ad in the paper he cut out as well. A woman named Donna sold it to him and it called out "original motor and transmission".

The engine casting number is correct but the date pad is confusing me. It looks like it reads F127CF but I know that CF should read CT.... the car's VIN puts it at a late Jan build so the F127 part all makes sense. Am I looking at this wrong or did the stamp just not make good contact on the other side of the T?

Brian

Welcome to NCRS Technical Discussion forum.

Expect some more experienced members will chime in to your question. From my view, note that some of the "straight" broach marks are at angles to other "straight" broach marks. Some of the "straight" broach mark areas exhibit a similar scratch pattern to other areas. Some pad areas appear to have deep broach marks, while other areas are shallow. Finally, photo shows remnants of circular pattern made when block surface was decked.

Assembly date stamp: Appears as "CF". A "T" would not have the "F" mid-bar in any case.

Appears to me that block has been decked, broach marks added, and restamped or decking was so light as to preserve original assembly date stamp.

What is that blocks casting date? "CF" indicates a 230hp 3 speed use in trucks (later years Impala).

Transmission part number and casting date?

Dave

[Bryan K.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Very interesting. Really odd if this ends up being a swapped motor. The original owner was a middle aged woman, a paralegal at Hughes Aircraft (employee parking pass still on the windshield), then my grandfather got it and left it 100% the same since he bought it. I will be pulling the motor out this weekend to clean it up and put a clutch in it. I'll report back with more findings and better photos.

[Chuck B.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Run Forest Run

[David H.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Bryan

What is the general condition of your car? Does it currently run?

For starters, safe operation. Tires, batteries, etc.

In header at top of this page is a "SERVICES" drop down link. Drop down to "Judging Awards", then open up "Operations" for your year car (1958-1962). This pdf is our judging sheet for "how well do things work". A more comprehensive operations check is "PV Scoresheet" (Performance Verification). Details of what is judged are found in Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide and PV year specific manuals available from NCRS Store.

How well do you fit in this car? How well did (would) your Grand Father have fit? May explain his minimal usage.

Any of these cars are expensive to restore. Restoring one to NCRS standards can be much more expensive, even starting from a car with minimal Originality issues.

Take Chuck Berge's comment as a warning - you likely are looking at a significant restoration expense. Sentimentality aside, what are YOUR plans for this car? Undoubtedly your Grand Father appreciated this car - kept it for years, but he didn't really use it. What is this cars current condition? How/where was it stored? Answers to those questions may give you some insight as to how much sentiment should drive your decisions.


Dave

[Dan A.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Dave Houlihan where did you find the 1958 CF suffix truck reference? Was it somewhere like Nastyz28 or Mortec? I gave up on such sites years ago because I found errors and what seemed like somewhat generic information in there listings. Particularly in quoted year ranges for some casting numbers.

Ed McComas's Lime book does not list the CF suffix as a truck application for the 1958 model year. Nor does GM literature from the period (1958).

I'm not convinced CF is truck suffix. Trucks usually use different suffix codes from other body lines with like engines.


From Chevrolet Division of GM publications:


CF is a 283 4bbl with manual transmission used in 1200, 1600 and 1800 series bodies. All of which are full size Chevrolet passenger cars.


For 1958 trucks:
Suffix code M is a 283 Trademaster used in 3100, 3200, 3400,3600, 3800 4000 series trucks
" " MA is a 283 Trademaster used in 3100, 3200, 3400, 3600, 3800, 4100 4400 series trucks with Hydramatic Transmission
" " MB is a 283 Trademaster used in 3100, 3200, 3400, 3600, 3800, 4000 series trucks with HD Clutch
" " P is a 283 Trademaster used in 6000 series trucks


There were NO light truck 283 V8 suffixes that used the letter C. With the only possible exception being heavy trucks and I doubt that.

[David H.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Dave Houlihan where did you find the 1958 CF suffix truck reference? Was it somewhere like Nastyz28 or Mortec? I gave up on such sites years ago because I found errors and what seemed like somewhat generic information in there listings. Particularly in quoted year ranges for some casting numbers.

Ed McComas's Lime book does not list the CF suffix as a truck application for the 1958 model year. Nor does GM literature from the period (1958).

I'm not convinced CF is truck suffix. Trucks usually use different suffix codes from other body lines with like engines.


From Chevrolet Division of GM publications:


CF is a 283 4bbl with manual transmission used in 1200, 1600 and 1800 series bodies. All of which are full size Chevrolet passenger cars.


For 1958 trucks:
Suffix code M is a 283 Trademaster used in 3100, 3200, 3400,3600, 3800 4000 series trucks
" " MA is a 283 Trademaster used in 3100, 3200, 3400, 3600, 3800, 4100 4400 series trucks with Hydramatic Transmission
" " MB is a 283 Trademaster used in 3100, 3200, 3400, 3600, 3800, 4000 series trucks with HD Clutch
" " P is a 283 Trademaster used in 6000 series trucks


There were NO light truck 283 V8 suffixes that used the letter C. With the only possible exception being heavy trucks and I doubt that.

Dan

I did get it CF truck reference off an internet site. "CF" is listed in Lime Book (page 16) for 1958-1961 as 283 230hp 4B,MT Automobile "PA". Also listed for 1964 as 283 195hp 2B,4S Automobile "NO" or Nova.

Dave

I'll look for that truck reference website

[Dan A.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

OP Bryan Kokkeler just as you were advised on the Corvette Forum full discloser with photos of vehicle VIN casting number, casting date and a clear photo taken square to the block stamp pad applies on this forum as much or more. That's if you seek an accurate as possible assessment. Help those that are trying to help you. As was explained to you previously the supposed machine marks running parallel to the crank shaft are not typical. The machine marks crossing those broach marks with a gentile arch indicate the block has been decked. All of which places the existing stamp in question.


Without the previously outlined and requested information it isn't possible to even speculate that the block might have been original to the car until Bubba worked on it. So for anyone considering it, the safest advice is as my learned colleague Chuck Berge says, Run Forest run!

[Dan A.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Dave i may not have been clear when I spoke of the Lime Book listing. I'm aware it does list the CF suffix in use for the 1958 model year. But only as PA (passenger car) usage. There is no listing in the Lime Book for the 1958 model year of the CF suffix with TR (truck) application.

[David H.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Dave i may not have been clear when I spoke of the Lime Book listing. I'm aware it does list the CF suffix in use for the 1958 model year. But only as PA (passenger car) usage. There is no listing in the Lime Book for the 1958 model year of the CF suffix with TR (truck) application.

Dan

Thanks for your insight on "CF" codes NOT being used on trucks.

Don't remember what website I originally referenced that had trucks using "CF", but a quick search shows "nastyz28.com and "johns cabin.com" with "CF" truck listings. Not withstanding "trucks", there is quite a variance among various sites with hp and carburetor usage as well.

Can't believe I found something on the internet that was not true!

BTW: "Lime Book" as a pdf is available at camaros.org for those interested.

Dave

[Pat H.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

Ater looking at the pad, it's possible that the last letter is a T which would indicate a low horse 245HP 2 4BBl car. I have concerns about the broach makes. IMO they are off especially where the CF/CT is. I would first look at the casting # and date before doing anything

[James G.]

Re: 1958 Date Stamp Question

PER 1955-59 ''CHEVROLET BY THE NUMBERS'' Al Colvin page 43 says ''CF'' is for 283/230hp, 3 speed passenger car.
''CT'' is for Corvette 2x4, 283/245 hp, Manual trans.