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Z06 Reveal

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  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 31, 1992
    • 15630

    #16
    Re: Z06 Reveal

    Then a discussion started about torque and horsepower over on the CF. I don't think most guys understand what they are and are not, so I tried to explain it. If you ever took a basic physics course and understand the concepts of work, energy, and power you will probably understand. If not, I don't know.

    At least one guy found my derivation of the Power = Torque x RPM/5252 forumula useful.

    Torque is a force acting in a circle rather than a straight line. Energy is a force acting over a distance whether circular or a straight line. Power is energy per unit time, and this is what accelerates a car. A given level of power can be generated by high torque at low revs or low torque at high revs.

    Power = torque acting through one revolution times number of revolutions per unit time. Say at WOT an engine produces 300 lb-ft torque at 6000 RPM. The torque is equivalent to a force acting in circle of one foot radius. So for one revolution the force travels 2pi(1) feet. (The circumference of a circle is 2pi(r).)

    Power = 2pi(300)(6000) = 11,309,760 ft-lb/sec (Note the units.)

    James Watt's primary customer for his new fangled steam engine in the late eighteenth century was English coal mines that used horses attached to capstans walking in a circle that drove pumps to remove water from the mines. So Watt needed to size his engine in terms of horses, and his time and motion studies indicated that a typical draft horse used to drive the pumps generated 33,000 foot-pounds of energy per minute, and he defined this power level as one horsepower.

    So if we divide the 11 million plus ft-lb per minute of power above by 33,000 we get 343 horsepower.

    The common formula for power with torque in lb-ft and speed in RPM, T x N/5252, comes from 2pi/33,000 = 1/5252.

    Vintage electric lab dynamometers were mounted on bearings so they were free to rotate, but constrained by a lever arm of say one foot radius that rested on a scale. So the scale read torque in lb-ft and horsepower was computed by multiplying the observed torque by observed RPM at that torque reading and then usually corrected to a standard air density.

    Inertia dynos like Dynojets measure power directly because it is proportional to the angular acceleration of the drum of known rotational inertia. Then by rearranging the above formula and using engine revs for N we get equivalent engine torque net of driveline/tire loss at the rear wheels.

    Power is also equal to force force times velocity. If an airplane travels at 600 MPH (52,800 feet per minute) with a known engine thrust of, say 40,000 pounds, you can compute the power dissipated with proper unit conversions.

    Likewise with a car at a fixed speed, if you know the total drag, which is equal to the applied thrust from the tires against the road, you can compute power.

    Duke

    Comment

    • Mark F.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • July 31, 1998
      • 1486

      #17
      Re: Z06 Reveal

      The guy in this video also explains the math Duke has just gone thru...

      I always wondered where that "5252" constant came from...and why HP always equals Torque @ 5252 rpm (only if plotted as equivalent units)...

      it's all dimensional analysis and fraction reduction!

      https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ss-at-5252-rpm
      thx,
      Mark

      Comment

      • Duke W.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • December 31, 1992
        • 15630

        #18
        Re: Z06 Reveal

        Good example of how to make something relatively simple into stupidly complicated. The formula for the circumference of a circle and James Watt's derived amount of sustained power that a draft horse can produce, 2pi(1)/33,000 = 1/5252 ain't rocket science.

        Duke

        Comment

        • Mark E.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • March 31, 1993
          • 4503

          #19
          Re: Z06 Reveal

          Great explanation of energy, power, torque and horsepower. Thanks Duke!
          Mark Edmondson
          Dallas, Texas
          Texas Chapter

          1970 Coupe, Donnybrooke Green, Light Saddle LS5 M20 A31 C60 G81 N37 N40 UA6 U79
          1993 Coupe, 40th Anniversary, 6-speed, PEG 1, FX3, CD, Bronze Top

          Comment

          • Mark H.
            Expired
            • September 18, 2013
            • 241

            #20
            Re: Z06 Reveal

            And Leno gets to drive it first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRU3UDvhF0s

            Comment

            • Michael J.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • January 26, 2009
              • 7093

              #21
              Re: Z06 Reveal

              And no doubt Mr. H will purchase the first one too......
              Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

              Comment

              • Terry M.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • September 30, 1980
                • 15579

                #22
                Re: Z06 Reveal

                Originally posted by Michael Johnson (49879)
                And no doubt Mr. H will purchase the first one too......
                You can make book on that Mike. I know the store where he has the first 2 spots. I would bet at least one of his will be black. I hope he will pay more then I will. My spot is in the low single digits there.
                Terry

                Comment

                • Michael J.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • January 26, 2009
                  • 7093

                  #23
                  Re: Z06 Reveal

                  Good luck Terry! After having waited the long waits for my '19 ZR1 and '21 HTC, I hope yours is shorter, but I suspect this one will be and seem like an eternity it is so popular. Hopefully few dealers will try the ADM route on orders.
                  Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                  Comment

                  • Terry M.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • September 30, 1980
                    • 15579

                    #24
                    Re: Z06 Reveal

                    Originally posted by Michael Johnson (49879)
                    Good luck Terry! After having waited the long waits for my '19 ZR1 and '21 HTC, I hope yours is shorter, but I suspect this one will be and seem like an eternity it is so popular. Hopefully few dealers will try the ADM route on orders.
                    Long wait?? They have had my deposit for five years. I passed on a 2020 to wait for the DOC and FPC. I have never owned a base motor Corvette and I don't feel like starting now.
                    Terry

                    Comment

                    • Larry E.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • November 30, 1989
                      • 1661

                      #25
                      Re: Z06 Reveal

                      The 2023 Corvette Z06 just took its first drive with a non-GM employee behind the wheel as Jay LenoJay Leno Z06.jpg
                      Larry

                      LT1 in a 1LE -- One of 134

                      Comment

                      • Chris H.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • March 31, 2000
                        • 837

                        #26
                        Re: Z06 Reveal

                        More race car than street car...not necessarily a bad thing....
                        1969 Riverside Gold Coupe, L71, 14,000 miles. Top Flight, 2 Star Bowtie.

                        Comment

                        • Michael J.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • January 26, 2009
                          • 7093

                          #27
                          Re: Z06 Reveal

                          Originally posted by Terry McManmon (3966)
                          Long wait?? They have had my deposit for five years. I passed on a 2020 to wait for the DOC and FPC. I have never owned a base motor Corvette and I don't feel like starting now.
                          And I thought I was patient.....I am waiting for the ZR1 variant to be specified, I have had so many I want to stick with that sequence. But, if it doesn't have a turbo or supercharged ICE push rod V8, I may pass. I have had DOHC, FPC engines (Voodoo) and I prefer something else, but to each his own.
                          Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                          Comment

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