Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

[Gary S.]

Looking for opinions on either rebuilt and new manufactured brake calipers from Lone Star versus CSSB. A search here tells me there are lots of fans of both. So ... who's got an opinion on one versus the other and why. Second question is remanufactured versus new casting and how well the new castings function and judge? A search here saw one post that says Lone Star has the manufacturing rights to the calipers. Does that mean that everyone else to include CSSB buys from them?

I have a LF caliper that is leaking but I can't seem to get it to stop and my patience is thin and my back is hurting. My calipers are assumed to be original and have been SS sleeved before I bought the car 21 years ago and are currently running with lip seals. I have never had an issue with lip seals or leaking but I have a second kit coming and will also put a new piston in that one spot that is leaking.

I am inclined to go with new manufactured from one of them versus remanufactured but trying to get as much information as possible.

I saw that Lone Star had web site issues this past February but has anyone had problems with them recently? I click on their "calipers" section and I get a blank screen with only their logo.

Gary

[Leif A.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Gary,
I have bought from both suppliers with satisfactory results from both. A local restorer I was visiting with last week told me he is having a devil of a time getting calipers from anybody, right now...including Lone Star and CSSB. I guess supply chain issues are catching up with everyone and everything. Best of luck.

[Gary S.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Thank you Leif. Did you buy remanufactured or new castings?
Gary

[Mark E.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

I bought reman calipers from Lone Star a few months ago. I chose them mostly because they were within driving distance (saved shipping costs) but also because they are small enough to talk with the owner. If you choose LS, get the o-rings with lifetime warranty and pay a bit extra for the "NCRS service". This gives you hand picked cores with intact numbers (or your own cores), black paint (vs their standard grey color), appropriate surfaces not painted as original (vs everything grey), and an assembly process separate from their high-volume line.

I asked the owner why their standard color isn't black and he said black paint is more expensive and takes longer to dry which slows down their process.

I feel better with original castings which have a known quality level vs. new castings made by who-knows-who. Plus, obviously, they're more original. Same goes for water pumps and other rebuildable castings.

I gave up years ago rebuilding calipers myself. I like the idea of just returning one if (more like when) it leaks for no charge (other than shipping and fluid) and moving on with another project.

[Leif A.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Thank you Leif. Did you buy remanufactured or new castings?
Gary

Reman calipers from Lone Star and new casting master cylinder from CSSB.

[Keith B.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Ken the owner of Lone stare is a great person to work with. All four of my dads mid years have their calipers and master cylinders on them. They all stop great. But we only deal with them at Carlisle to save on shipping and such.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Both are good, and I have used both in the last year.

If you have your original calipers, for a nominal handling fee either will rebuild YOUR calipers and send them back to you. Why lose them if you have them? The original casting iron was better than today's material, and then you keep your date codes.
Obviously I'd ask them to paint them black like original rather than the "default" of silver.

I think that CSSB probably has better O-rings, but if you get a better price from Lonestar then go ahead and use them.

One front caliper from LS leaked due to a damaged casting, and I had to replace it. No issues yet with the CSSB calipers here.
You have to call Lonestar; don't try their website.

[Gary S.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Thanks for the responses. I'll call both tomorrow

[Joe L.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Both are good, and I have used both in the last year.

If you have your original calipers, for a nominal handling fee either will rebuild YOUR calipers and send them back to you. Why lose them if you have them? The original casting iron was better than today's material, and then you keep your date codes.
Obviously I'd ask them to paint them black like original rather than the "default" of silver.

I think that CSSB probably has better O-rings, but if you get a better price from Lonestar then go ahead and use them.

One front caliper from LS leaked due to a damaged casting, and I had to replace it. No issues yet with the CSSB calipers here.
You have to call Lonestar; don't try their website.

Patrick------


Yes, 1965-E1967 (546xxxx casting numbers) calipers were cast of nodular cast iron. L1967-about 1973 (545xxxx casting numbers) were malleable/ductile cast iron, an even better material. From about 1973 onward (547xxxx casting numbers) gray cast iron was used. I believe the "reproduction" calipers are also of gray iron.

[Gary B.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Joe,

To close the loop, where does gray cast iron rank compared to nodular and malleable in terms of key characteristics, like strength or brittleness?

Gary

[Joe L.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Joe,

To close the loop, where does gray cast iron rank compared to nodular and malleable in terms of key characteristics, like strength or brittleness?

Gary

Gray iron is not as strong as nodular or malleable iron. Gray iron also has a greater tendency to crack.

Gray iron is the most common form of cast iron. It is used for cylinder heads and engine blocks (at least, it was when most cylinder heads and engine blocks were ferrous metal). Cast iron crankshafts, on the other hand, are made of nodular or malleable iron since they require greater strength and ductility.

[Garry B.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

I have had two front remanufactured o ring calipers on order from Lone Star. I originally spoke to Ken and he said they were back ordered because they are having problems getting the o rings and that it would be 2-3 weeks. I believe we are now on week five or six. I suspicion that all of the vendors are short on inventory, so good luck.

[Mark F.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Gray iron is not as strong as nodular or malleable iron. Gray iron also has a greater tendency to crack. Gray iron is the most common form of cast iron. It is used for cylinder heads and engine blocks (at least, it was when most cylinder heads and engine blocks were ferrous metal). Cast iron crankshafts, on the other hand, are made of nodular or malleable iron since they require greater strength and ductility.

Adding on to what Joe has described – and having worked in several foundries, I was always fascinated at what a crude and filthy process casting is (or at least, used to be). However, as crude as it was, the chemistry and metallurgical alloy results were amazingly controlled and QA’d.

This site has text providing a good overview of what Joe has described – enumerating the different types of “cast irons” and their associated characteristics. Skip to the end for 2 minute video if you don’t need all their text details…

https://www.reliance-foundry.com/blog/ductile-iron-vs-cast-iron

The site above mentioned “nodulizing elements”, but they didn’t tell you what some of them are (magnesium and other rare earths)….

The quick video link below shows how magnesium is added to a single ladle of grey iron to convert it to ductile, nodularized(sp?) iron. IIRC, in automotive specialty foundries I have been in (40 years ago in large-scale, 24-hour casting operations), these elements are added as part of the cupola “charge”, rather than being added at the end in ladles as shown here…either way, the chemistry/metallurgical results are probably the same…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9zz9fXp81M

And finally, the first part of this one very clearly demonstrates how resistant to cracking ductile iron can be!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgiqURs0TQg

As for the remainder of this video, I’d say “Don’t Try This at Home!”

PS - LoneStar did my original calipers and Master cylinder ~15+ years ago and haven't had a single issue since...

[Vinnie P.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

CSSB is one of our advertisers in the Driveline, Lone Star is not an advertiser and I've reached out to them a number of times without success.
Vinnie

[Terry M.]

Re: Opinions on Lone Star versus CSSB calipers?

Adding on to what Joe has described – and having worked in several foundries, I was always fascinated at what a crude and filthy process casting is (or at least, used to be). However, as crude as it was, the chemistry and metallurgical alloy results were amazingly controlled and QA’d.

Many sleeps ago I worked in a research capacity in metal forming. In the same building was the foundry research operation. Compared to a production operation what went on there was like a drop of rain in a thunderstorm.

Years later I got to see the foundry operation at Saginaw Metal Forming when they were still pouring iron. Probably the early 1990s. To continue the above analogy: That was like a monsoon. At that time they were just beginning to produce aluminum castings; which is all they produce now.

Pouring iron is and always has been a dirty operation. Aluminum is less so.