"Play" in my steering

[John P.]

This in one of those "something ain't exactly right but not sure where to start" questions.

My 1965 convertible has new radial tires at proper pressure, recent alignment per Duke's guideline, new shocks, a rebuilt rag joint done several years ago-rivets are now gone.

My main issues seem to be at 45-50 mph and above- there seems to be excess play in the steering such that a small but unsettling drift occurs when driving in 2 way traffic. It is distracting enough to never feel quite comfortable-like a bit more drift could result in a bad situation.

The car was purchased by me in 2003, and at that time a power steering system was added-not OEM but despite a bit of fluid leakage, it seems to function as intended .

Where should I start a process of looking at this? While my usual mechanic has reasonable experience and ability, he is not a C2 restorer.

Any immediate thoughts on this? The problem with using the archives for this is how to find threads with such nonspecific terminology to start, i.e. how to ask the right question.

[David H.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

... at that time a power steering system was added-not OEM but despite a bit of fluid leakage, it seems to function as intended ....

John

What is your non-OEM steering?

Is your steering gear Corvette?

Has steering gear been adjusted?

Have you checked wheel bearing set-up?

With wheels on ground, have someone move steering wheel to extent of play in both directions. With wheel moving, check for play in: tie rod ends, steering linkage, steering gear to frame bolts, and steering shaft coupling.

Dave

[John P.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

By non OEM I mean that the power steering system is an add-on from one of the vendors-not a power steering system attached to the firewall as per original factory design.

I believe that the steering box is original, though it appears rag joint is not.

And not sure what you mean by wheel bearing set up.

John

What is your non-OEM steering?

Is your steering gear Corvette?

Has steering gear been adjusted?

Have you checked wheel bearing set-up?

With wheels on ground, have someone move steering wheel to extent of play in both directions. With wheel moving, check for play in: tie rod ends, steering linkage, steering gear to frame bolts, and steering shaft coupling.

Dave

[Mark E.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

John,

Dave is asking if the PS system added uses original technology (gear, external valve and cylinder) as opposed to a different design (for example a Borgeson or rack and pinion system).
I'm not aware of any PS components associated with the firewall.

Make sure the wheel bearings are in good condition and properly adjusted. Wheel bearing slop can cause your symptoms.

Dave also shared a good method to check for wear/slop in the steering linkage.

[David H.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

... And not sure what you mean by wheel bearing set up.

John

One possible cause of excessive play or looseness in your steering system is loosely adjusted front wheel bearings.

Your Service Manual will have an "Adjustment Front Wheel Bearings" section in Front Suspension "Maintenance and Adjustments".

You can check proper function by raising the vehicle and supporting lower control arm. Spin wheel and check for unusual noise or roughness.

Check for tight/loose bearings by gripping tire at top and bottom and moving wheel assembly in and out on spindle. Less movement than 0.001" or greater than 0.005" require adjustment.

Procedure will have a raise wheel / spin / tighten / loosen sequence. I don't know what your year's specific torque / loosen values are.

One possibility.

Dave

[Ed S.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

A few points / observations regarding your initial post and issue. You indicate the car is equipped with "radial" tires and power steering. Your issue is that there appears to be excessive play in the steering components but it only manifests itself at 45 - 50 mph and above. You also indicated that the car was aligned as per "Duke's instructions. I find it unusual that the "play" is only noticeable above a certain speed. If it were actually "play" - i.e., looseness or excess movement (due to wear, poor quality manufacturing or adjustment) in one or more mechanical components - the "play" should be noticeable at any speed - even when the car is standing still - turn the steering wheel and there would be no immediate movement of the road wheels. But that is not the case. It is apparent that you are aware that a C2 with radials requires alignment specs that are different than OEM recommendations with bias tires - I suspect that is why you reference "Duke's instructions". For the record, a C2 with radials requires significantly more positive caster than one with bias ply tires - and the need for more caster increases if the car has power steering. If a C2 had radials and was aligned in accordance with OEM specs - the most noticeable condition would be a lightness in the feel of the steering wheel and a strong tendency to "wander" to the that constant steering adjustments would be required to keep the car going relatively straight. All that said, it sounds to me like you have an alignment issue - insufficient caster, not positive enough. I can speak from experience on this radial tire - wandering - alignment spec issue. I don't have PS but with new radials on my 64 and adjusted to OEM specs above 30 MPH I was all over the road. A realignment "as per Duke's instructions" and the car rolls along straight and steady - it goes where I point it. If you don't have any lose components - I would revisit alignment with a focus on caster.

[John P.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

Perhaps is present to some extent at all speeds. Just more disconcerting at the higher ones .

I misspoke about firewall location. I was thinking of power brake booster.

the add on system is the original design.

Would my average mechanic be aware of how to test and adjust the bearings? I have been listening for the “bad bearing” tweeting sounds I have head in other vehicle-haven’t heard this in my case.

I think the term “wander” well describes the feeling in the car-and there is no particular buzz or vibration as I’m holding the steering wheel.

[David H.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

... Would my average mechanic be aware of how to test and adjust the bearings? ...

John

In days of yore, your average mechanic would be adept at testing and adjusting bearings.

Our "Days of Yore" (C2&C3) cars use tapered roller bearings that have a slightly loose feel when properly adjusted. Corvettes built before "the days of yore" use caged ball bearings. !984 and later Corvettes use "sealed bearings".

I expect today's Automotive Technicians are only going to be familiar with sealed bearing - "remove and replace" parts.

I'd suggest DIY - Adjustment procedure is NOT difficult and is described in your Shop Manual. FWIW: bearing maintenance (remove/clean/repack) is most likely going to be even 30k miles or 15k miles for heavy-duty application.

Dave

[Edward J.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

John, a couple things that come to me about swapping to power steering, first is when adding p/strg. The tie rod position is changed on the steering knuckle to the outer position, another thought was the steering box has a notch on the input shaft that should be pointing at 12:00, to check this the wheels must be pointed straight ahead and at this point if the steering wheel is positioned at the correct straight ahead also(the spokes of strg. wheel should be 3,6,9.). This adjustment is very important so the steering has a tight feel when driving. If off by a tooth the box may feel excessive play and cause the wander. I hope you make since of my post.

[Duke W.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

It is apparent that you are aware that a C2 with radials requires alignment specs that are different than OEM recommendations with bias tires - I suspect that is why you reference "Duke's instructions". For the record, a C2 with radials requires significantly more positive caster than one with bias ply tires - and the need for more caster increases if the car has power steering. If a C2 had radials and was aligned in accordance with OEM specs - the most noticeable condition would be a lightness in the feel of the steering wheel and a strong tendency to "wander" to the that constant steering adjustments would be required to keep the car going relatively straight. All that said, it sounds to me like you have an alignment issue - insufficient caster, not positive enough. I can speak from experience on this radial tire - wandering - alignment spec issue. I don't have PS but with new radials on my 64 and adjusted to OEM specs above 30 MPH I was all over the road. A realignment "as per Duke's instructions" and the car rolls along straight and steady - it goes where I point it. If you don't have any lose components - I would revisit alignment with a focus on caster.

The only significant alignment change for radials is less toe-in. My camber and caster recommendations for both "touring" and "sport" are the same for both radial and bias ply tires. More caster means more on-enter feel, which is good since the OE PS system tends to be overboosted which loses on-center feel.

The problem is that you may not be able to achieve even 2 degrees positive caster before you run out of adjustment.

To the OP: You said you aligned to "Duke's instructions" Which one? Touring or Sport? You should have a written printout of all the final settings. How about posting them?

You appear to have some aftermarket steering system or modification that I am not familiar with, so I can't comment on whether it's an issue or not.

Duke

[John P.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

these are the before and after measurements of the front end.

i used specific info on alignment which I supplied to the mechanics-- I found that in this forum-but I would have to look for it again.

The power steering add-on is a similar setup to the original, from one of the major vendors. Other than minor fluid drip (and yes the reservoir is full) The system seems to work as it always has-which seems to be well. current measurements are what we ended with. Not sure I noticed any difference from the before measurements


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[John P.]

Re: "Play" in my steering

Not sure I understand the reason for the caster difference in the before and current front end measurements