C2 Battery

[Richard S.]

I am looking for a source for a new correct battery for my 63 340HP car. The source for my last battery no longer seems to be in business (Restoration Battery Cincinnati Ohio). Any information appreciated.

Thanks
Rich

[Leif A.]

Re: C2 Battery

If you're looking for an original appearing battery, then

Jim's Battery Mfg.
602 W. Rayen Avenue
Youngstown, OH 44502
330-480-0755
(on line ordering not up yet)

If you simply need a battery to start your '63, any name brand Group 24 battery will suffice.

[Larry E.]

Re: C2 Battery

If you're looking for an original appearing battery, then
If you simply need a battery to start your '63, any name brand Group 24 battery will suffice.

Added info to the above: If you want a Delco Group 24 Battery go to the nearest Menards Big Box Store.
They carry Delco Batterys>have one in my 66 Coupe>Larry

[Richard S.]

Re: C2 Battery

Lief
Is the battery you mention original in detail that would pass judging?
Thank you
Rich

[Joe R.]

Re: C2 Battery

Richard,

You are out of luck on a correct detailed battery that will not receive any deductions! Just get a Delco Battery as suggested and prepare the car for a few points won't matter in betting a top flight award.

JR

[David H.]

Re: C2 Battery

Lief
Is the battery you mention original in detail that would pass judging?
Thank you
Rich

Richard

Batteries are judged re Standard Deduction Guideline #2. Correct replacement battery is a 50% point deduction on Originality. Condition is judged separately, and a new battery would have no deduction on Condition. (At least 10% of Originality must remain in order to judge Condition. )

Specifically, for C2 on "Battery and Caps" there are 25 Originality points and 15 Condition points. Hence a correct replacement battery would get a 12 or 13 point Originality deduction. Given "like new", there would be no deduction on Condition.

There are 4500 points in Flight Judging. Cost/benefit on a standard replacement battery or a reproduction battery is your call.

Note: reproduction batteries are also subject to Standard Deduction Guideline #2 deductions. Also note: fire extinguisher, battery cut-off, and NCRS decal combine for a 10 point addition to your judging score.

Dave

[Leif A.]

Re: C2 Battery

Lief
Is the battery you mention original in detail that would pass judging?
Thank you
Rich

It's a very good reproduction, in appearance, of the original battery that came with your car. However, as others have stated, the judges will give you the standard deductions during judging. I, personally, run a modern AC Delco Group 24 battery. The difference in points hit during judging can easily be made up elsewhere. Chasing minimal points can get very expensive...pick your battles.

[Richard S.]

Re: C2 Battery

Thanks guys for all the detail. Greatly appreciated. That makes the battery selection much easier.

Thank you
Rich

[Terry M.]

Re: C2 Battery

Rich,
As a means of comparison, there is a Gurdjian NOS DC-12 Tar Top battery on Ebay with a price of $1339 (offers considered). So, the price per judging point for this component is quite high. Like the others that have posted, I would recommend purchase of a new AC Delco battery and take the standard deduct. I recently finished my '65 restoration and used a new AC battery (with flat top) and installed a Paragon battery topper. Had to enlarge the terminal holes a bit on the topper but now it looks like an original battery (ok, maybe to the casual observer) and the cost for the battery and topper was around $180. A restoration battery like currently available units will set you back twice that price and will net you the same standard points deduction as my set-up. I was judged this year at the Cedar Rapids Regional and Bloomington Gold where I received the standard deduct at both venues. Still earned a Top Flight and Gold Certificate. Good luck!

Terry

[Joe R.]

Re: C2 Battery

Sir,

NOS stands for New Old Stock. A Ed Gurdjian battery is NOT NOS. Ed had these batteries made back in the late 80's and early 90's. To my knowledge Ed's batteries have not been made in the last 30 years. A battery of that age with or without acid would not be a good purchase.

JR

[Ronald L.]

Re: C2 Battery

Joe,
Ed's batteries are the best thing to pass judging.

You should fact check if a battery can be properly charged if it has sat closed for 30 years.

Here is one link, among many orthers where people are reviving them, it all depends on how much they are deteriorated.

https://www.the-diy-life.com/recondition-a-lead-acid-battery/

But that is Not the Point - the one and others on ebay are 100% brand new and have sat closed with caps on.

If any member is a Chemist and into the EV charging space of the 21st century they are welcome to chime in with chemical facts.

Let me help you here, it cannot be sulphated ( the used failure mode), because it never had sulpheric acid added.

The max condition deterioration is the lead plates could have PbO oxide which either the sulpheric acid or the cleaning methods in the online world would be expected to clean that up. Chances are you would not need to, follow the revival and slow charge it.


If it cannot be "Charged for the first time!", the best mod out there,

even if it could be properly charged this is what I'd do, is to put the MIL Grade dry cell into it.

Follow the Restorer on how to do put this dry charge in the bottom and keep all the original tar un molested on the top.

Only thing I would add to be 100% spot on for judging is the date code...

Having said that, The Gurj batteries were made using the Delco Plastic molds and are correct in configuration for 63-65, I have yet to see in the last 20 years a correct 1966 battery come on the market. 1967 was not a DC-12, so you get to chase the same discussion with the Y59's listed at $1300 too.

Better luck can be had to find an original 65-67 correct air filter, you just have to pony up to the table, and they sure are beautiful works of art for special cars.

[Joe R.]

Re: C2 Battery

My point here is those batteries are not NOS. They were never a stock battery in the first place. They were reproductions. Never original from GM or Delco.

JR

[Larry M.]

Re: C2 Battery

Ron:

Many many years ago, I purchased and used Dr Ed's R59 reproduction battery. I believe I purchased a total of three .......maybe four.

They were a nice reproduction, but they lasted only about 3 years or so. Maybe it was me, but maybe the battery itself. I used battery grade sulfuric acid from NAPA to charge them up. They generally responded well to initial charging, but I had one that sat for about a year, and it was not easy to get it to take the charge. I remember calling Dr. Ed for technical assistance. I believe I then used a fast charge for 1/2 hour or so to get things "cooking" and then went back to the normal slower charging procedure.

One case developed a leak and destroyed my 67 battery tray finish, and I removed the tray, sandblasted it, and repainted.

I prefer the gel cell reproductions for my 67, and find they last about 6-7 years and never any acid issues to have to address.

FWIW.

Larry

[Ronald L.]

Re: C2 Battery

Joe,
You were clearly saying that a 30 year old new battery would not function.

What's a stock battery? A service part from GMPD?

There were very few tar tops produced after 1966 and why would anyone back then want one, that is until the Doc rescued the molds, and as far as that goes, where did he run the molds? In what facility were they produced? Anderson IN or his PO Box in Bllomfield Hills?

The facts are that there were extremely few places equiped to make batteries, back then and to this day.

Were they actually molded and assembled on contract in Anderson Plant???

When New Castle got in the game, they got the mold and added their details on the side down low, everything else was "close", later versions were done with fake tar. Notice I said close, not the same as a real one or Gurj contracted version.



Larry,
As I have studied the restoration a little, battery revival is a delicate process. I had one, non oem in my 66 for 20 years, and while it got low enought not to crank over a cold 427, then I learned to keep it on a trickle voltage managed charger that kept it fresh for over a decade.

You basically cannot let it discharge. If it does, then it time to empty out and follow the cleaning process.

Distilled water is key - back in the 60's, I don't recall ever hearing of distilled water... chemically its essential for battery life.

Flash forward, yes a MIL spec GEL battery fits into the DC 12 case and you don't have to worry about acid, unless you want to seal off the plates and add a litle acidic water under that cap to really make it look like the real deal to the judging crowd...no you cannot stick your finger nail in the tar, but if you like you can see that there's water under the cap.

[Richard S.]

Re: C2 Battery

I appreciate all the information provided for selection of a battery but in selecting a battery how do I know prior to purchase if the battery will fit in the car and have the terminals in the correct location.

Thanks
Rich