Seat restoration problem - hard foam

[Ed S.]

Need help. Purchased a complete vinyl seat set, including new foam and installation kit (and special tools) for my 64 convert from Al Knoch. The problem I am having is pulling the small pre-positioned wire clips through the foam and hooking them on to the zig zag wire on the bottom or back of the seats. Frames are restored, new material (vinyl cover, grey cotton pad, burlap are all in place - when I hook a wire with the long special tool I cannot pull the wire through the foam far enough to hook on to the zig zag spring - I get close then.... the wire clip I am pulling fails and opens up completely from the pulling force and there is nothing left of the wire to hook over the spring.

I am compressing the foam as much as I can but it does not "give" much - I am literally standing on it and it only compresses about an inch if that. I have watched the Al Knoch DVD video of the seat assembly process multiple times - gotta tell you - the foam in the video is a lot more pliable than what they sent me - what I have is like a rock. Am I doing something wrong or do I have defective (too hard) foam?

[Harry S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Ed, I had the same problem with my 63 seat bottoms. I was installing the Al Knoch (AK) vinyl over the Corvette America (CA) Foam. The CA foam is a bit softer. No matter whose foam you use it needs to be trimmed.

After struggling for days, I studied the CA installation video closer and closer and noticed the wire clips they were using were longer than those provided by AK. I ordered a wire kit from CA and the job was much easier to complete.

I watched the AK guys do seats at Carlisle and I have no idea how they make it look that ease.

Looks like the new parent of CA, Top Flight Automotive took down the installation video. I looked today and can't find it.

Good luck.

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Those are great tips! When you say "trim the foam" - do you trim or shave some off the bottom so it does not alter the contour? Roughly, "how much" needs to be trimmed - I am thinking like 3/4 to an inch across the entire bottom - or at least in the areas that go against the zig zag wires. Re the CA video - I saved a link to it - it is on You Tube - here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehHhk6Rr_Pk

I intend to call AK on Monday to ask - what is the trick to doing this. In the mean time - I will investigate a clip set from CA - thanks again for the great advice.

[Harry S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

I used an electric turkey knife. I did not take much off. Just rounded some of angular corners.

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

I watched the CA video again - you're right! Their clips look to be about twice as long as AK clips. I think that is the solution. If they are still selling those long clips I doubt that the foam would have to be trimmed. Thanks again Harry - you made my day!

[Patrick B.]

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

My original foam was totally shot - down to about half the thickness of the new stuff. Strange, on the clips, I have most of them - some were missing or broken - those that I have are the same as the AK new ones. I like Harry's approach - moderate t******* (if needed) and CA clips. This really helps - I thought I lost it here... could not make it work. Longer clips is the key.

[Don L.]

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Thanks for the suggestion Don - not sure it would work - I placed a piece of foam on a concrete floor with no other seat components on or under it - just the foam. Then I stood on it, just to see how much it would compress - I hate to admit it but I weight 200 pounds - my weight - concentrated all in one area had little effect - the foam compressed some - maybe 3/4 of an inch max - that is not enough to pull the clips through - I don't think a vacuum would make it any smaller - and, I don't have the equipment to create a vacuum in the way you describe. The foam is extremely dense.

[Tim G.]

[Phillip M.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Ed, did you contact AK about the problem? If so, what did they have to say?

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Ed, did you contact AK about the problem? If so, what did they have to say?

Not yet - plan to call tomorrow - will let you know what they tell me.

[Don L.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Thanks for the suggestion Don - not sure it would work - I placed a piece of foam on a concrete floor with no other seat components on or under it - just the foam. Then I stood on it, just to see how much it would compress - I hate to admit it but I weight 200 pounds - my weight - concentrated all in one area had little effect - the foam compressed some - maybe 3/4 of an inch max - that is not enough to pull the clips through - I don't think a vacuum would make it any smaller - and, I don't have the equipment to create a vacuum in the way you describe. The foam is extremely dense.

Hi Ed. I understand your difficulty in trying to compress the foam by “pressing” it. I agree that won’t do much in the way of getting the compression you need. I respectfully disagree with your thinking that you don’t have the equipment that would be required to compress foam using vacuum. Watch this short YouTube video I found on line. It shows how to compress foam, using materials found around the home. Note also how vacuum compresses the foam in the X, Y and Z dimensions. That’s a very important aspect of getting the foam inside a seat back cover.

Maybe this will help you and maybe it won’t. This is how seat manufacturers do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP2GV0bB2rM

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

Not yet - plan to call tomorrow - will let you know what they tell me.

Talked to an AK tech guy - he said he is one of the installers. Sad to report, I did not get a straight answer. I explained that the foam is so hard that I can stand on it and it barely compresses and I am exerting so much pulling force on the clips that they are either breaking or spreading wide open and thus become dysfunctional. All he kept saying is, "yes, it is very difficult to get the clips through - you have to pull real hard". I knew that and it didn't answer the question - "how do you guys do it", after getting basically the same response several times, I told the guy he was no help - I asked, "what is the trade secret" - answer, "pull hard and push on the foam". So I said "thank you" and hung up. He calls me back - he wants to help - offers to send me new foam, in a few weeks - or give me a discount on assembly if I ship my seats to them. Having lost confidence in their technical solutions, I declined - will get longer clips from CA.

[Ed S.]

Re: Seat restoration problem - hard foam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP2GV0bB2rM