Fuel for '70 LT-1

[Larry E.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Mark------

As I've mentioned before, the late Chevrolet performance expert John Lingenfelter once said "the best thing that ever happened for performance is unleaded gasoline".

Joe:Thanks for your input but only one problem with the above statement>YOU CAN NOT HARDLY FIND
UNLEADED GASOLINE W/O THE ETHANOL ADDITIVE. ETHANOL damages more older piston
driven motors/fuel lines and etc. then the small percentage of the 100LL used in older hardly used cars like
we have. The airport I go to tells me that a lot of their non-airplane use goes to people with trimmers/tillers/
and riding lawnmowers/snow equipment. The ethanol just plays havoc with these things. JMHO>Larry

[Richard S.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Just bought a new mower and the dealer suggested that I use $15/gal leaded fuel they sell for small engines. My VP 110 leaded is about $8.40/gal. so we shall see. John Deere dealer also recommends leaded for my power washer.

[Mark F.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

....The TEF or MAF fluid for automotive gasoline contained the lead plus about 20%(wt) Ethylene dibromide and 20% (wt) Ethylene dichloride as lead scavengers plus 2% inerts and red identifying dye....I was a chem engineer working for one of the three companies that produced organic lead for gasoline industry back in the day. So I am very familiar with both how it was manufactured as well as how it was used and blended in gasoline. I personally made it, blended it, and handled/mitigated many of its environmental issues. Larry

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the inside story and your Ch.E. knowledge!

I'm curious, why were EDB AND EDC blended together?

Wouldn't one or the other alone (depending on cost, of course) have worked just as well as the other?

Also, not an issue now, but did MTBE wreak havoc on collector car fuel systems before it was replaced with ethanol?

thanks much in advance...

[Larry M.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the inside story and your Ch.E. knowledge!

I'm curious, why were EDB AND EDC blended together?

Wouldn't one or the other alone (depending on cost, of course) have worked just as well as the other?

Also, not an issue now, but did MTBE wreak havoc on collector car fuel systems before it was replaced with ethanol?

thanks much in advance...

Mark: As I recall, there were about a dozen different mainstream blends of TEL for the oil companies. Many used the TEF blends, but a few used the MAF blends. We supplied a lot (TEF) to Mobil in Texas, who was just "down the street", so to speak. Chevron in California liked the MAF Blends. Each blend had a different composition of lead and scavengers. Av Gas used only EDB.

As to the why of EDC vs EDB........it was simply cost and availability. EDB was used exclusively in the early days of organic lead production for cars. But it was more difficult to make (my opinion) and not very available in the US chemical market. EDC was. So as organic lead production increased due to high test gasoline production increasing, EDC was substituted in the blends........and it worked just fine. And it allowed more profit.

Where I worked at Houston Chemical Company (Beaumont Texas) we made our own EDB and purchased the EDC.

The oil industry likely never wanted to just use only EDC (since EDB was used initially and for for decades), so they never completely eliminated it. Just used what was available and bought EDC as production increased. Probably also the reason the Av Gas uses only EDB.........these guys never change anything for their flying machines.(smile) EDC was more available by a factor of 100 to 1000 versus EDB.

I am not certain regarding MTBE corroding carbs and fuel systems etc............but it was definitely a hazardous material if and when it leaked into groundwater. A LOT of the old steel gasoline storage tanks were leaking into the groundwater and MTBE was present in the gasoline.......and also made its way into the groundwater. There was a large effort to dig out and replace the steel underground storage tanks and install fiberglass or other non-corrosive material of construction. I believe MTBE was considered a cancer causing chemical.........but I need to research this to be certain.

If you want to discuss further and take this off-line, you can email me directly at "chienjmc@aol.com".

Larry

LATE EDIT: EPA classified MTBE as a "possible" human carcinogen under its 1986 cancer risk assessment guidelines on the basis of results of inhalation cancer tests and has suggested that it be regarded as posing a potential carcinogenic hazard and risk to humans, though no quantitative estimate of the cancer potency of MTBE has ...Mar 24, 2020

But despite the possible cancer issue, it had many other non-desirable side effects on humans/animals. However, organic and inorganic lead and its components were a lot more dangerous for human health.

[Keith W.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Keith:Ran the 100LL in my Original 70 LT-1 Camaro Z28 with great results. Once you use this gas YOU WILL NOT GO BACK TO
ANYTHING ELSE. Nothing else will come close. Also will not deteriorate as fast as pump gas. JMHO Larry

Thanks Larry. That's probably the road I will stay on. Funny thing - the guy I talked to at a regional airport that will sell the 100LL as long as you put it in a can said bring the Vette here and take a guy out and he will take you up in his plane. Not a bad tradeoff.

[Ken D.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Joe:Thanks for your input but only one problem with the above statement>YOU CAN NOT HARDLY FIND
UNLEADED GASOLINE W/O THE ETHANOL ADDITIVE. ETHANOL damages more older piston
driven motors/fuel lines and etc. then the small percentage of the 100LL used in older hardly used cars like
we have. The airport I go to tells me that a lot of their non-airplane use goes to people with trimmers/tillers/
and riding lawnmowers/snow equipment. The ethanol just plays havoc with these things. JMHO>Larry

Larry: Don't know where you live but I'm in NE Florida and there are stations (WA-WA to name one) with non-ethanol grade pumps but only at 89 octane. I use this and add an octane booster which seems to be working OK so far. I'm presuming the aftermarket booster won't do any damage? However, I don't have LT-1; a '71 350/270 AT.

[Larry E.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Larry: Don't know where you live but I'm in NE Florida and there are stations (WA-WA to name one) with non-ethanol grade pumps but only at 89 octane. I use this and add an octane booster which seems to be working OK so far. I'm presuming the aftermarket booster won't do any damage? However, I don't have LT-1; a '71 350/270 AT.

Ken>
I live in North Central Illinois; there are a few stations BUT NOT MANY that have the non-ethanol gas. For the amount of driving I do with the 66 it just makes sense to me to use the gas that was made for it. (Pure-100LL) I also want to keep my engine all
original>no modifications like redo timing;advance curves;changing head gaskets.If it is good enough for the Chevrolet Engineers who designed and made it and recommended "Leaded Premium"> it is good enough for me. JMHO>Larry

[Duke W.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Larry: Don't know where you live but I'm in NE Florida and there are stations (WA-WA to name one) with non-ethanol grade pumps but only at 89 octane. I use this and add an octane booster which seems to be working OK so far. I'm presuming the aftermarket booster won't do any damage? However, I don't have LT-1; a '71 350/270 AT.

Your engine was designed and built by GM to run on 91 RON unleaded gasoline, which is the equivalent of today's 87 PON. This began for the 1971 model year.

If you have access to 89 PON then you certainly don't need and kind of "octane booster".

Duke

[Stephen V.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

My 70's, L46 and LS5 run vastly different with the 100LL. Since my carbs are rebuilt and my tanks are new running without non - Ethanol gas is very smooth. No corrosion, hickups and occasional erratic idle. The only thing I might mix with the LL is 93 Sunoco or BJ's with the Ethanol removed mixed with VP Racing Octanium Boost 8/80. A 21$ ....32 oz can is good for 10 Gallons.

[Ken D.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

Thanks for the note/info on unleaded fuel grades and I'll try NOT putting any octane booster in next tank and see what happens.

[Ron G.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

The nice thing about aviation fuel and racing fuel such as Cam 2, is that for long term purposes it does not gum up the carburetor and fuel lines. If you drain your fuel tank before long term term storage, any residue just dissipates. FYI - In Connecticut I pay $12.00 per gallon for 112 octane and that is from a friend of mine who sells it.

[Ed H.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

slm.jpg

[Larry M.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

When you read my question you'll know I'm not well schooled on the subject but here goes. I've always believed that in older engines (64 for example) the the valve seats were not hardened and that, in addition to boosting octane for high compression(mine is marketed at 11:1), lead lubricated the valve to valve seat area leading to longer life. Is this true and, if so, would LL Avgas have enough lead to get the job done?

[Larry M.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

When you read my question you'll know I'm not well schooled on the subject but here goes. I've always believed that in older engines (64 for example) the the valve seats were not hardened and that, in addition to boosting octane for high compression(mine is marketed at 11:1), lead lubricated the valve to valve seat area leading to longer life. Is this true and, if so, would LL Avgas have enough lead to get the job done?

Larry:

Over the years from when lead has been removed from gasoline, we have determined that lead is not required for the valves for cars like our Corvettes: with high HP to weight and only occasionally driven. It does have a positive effect for trucks hauling large loads and/or cars where the engines are loaded up and always at high HP.

It has also been demonstrated that engine break-in with real lead additives over the first few hundred miles will go a LONG LONG way to providing the protection that is required for years.

Bottom line: for almost all of us, it is not required for our Corvettes.

Yes, Av Gas LL100 has more than enough tetraethyl lead to provide the protection that we thought we all needed back in the day. Octane Supreme is also a real TEL addictive that can be purchased and will also provide this protection..........which again is likely not needed. VP and Sunoco Leaded Racing gasoline also contain lead and will do the same as Av LL100 gas......although they will cost more per gallon. But you can also blend the leaded fuel with no ethanol unleaded to give you your desired result with less cost.

Larry

[Paul Y.]

Re: Fuel for '70 LT-1

I got on Pure_gas.org and found over 25 gas stations in Mass. selling fuel without ethanol.