C2 headlight motor design changes?

[Gary S.]

My friend's 67 headlight motors have been torn apart along with their corresponding gear boxes. I am seeing two variations in the motor itself and I wonder how much of it was "bubba'd" versus design change, if any. The left motor has definitely been previously rebuilt and we suspect that the right motor hasn't due to worn teeth in the gear box as well as significant surface rust on all exterior motor pieces. The differences are this:
1. left motor had a "ball shaped" brass bushing on the lower end of the armature shaft but no pressed in brass bushing in the motor case. This results in some end play where the thumb wheel is attached. Interestingly, that is the motor that was operating the best.

2. the right motor does not have the brass ball on the armature shaft but does have the pressed in bushing in the motor case. It was very slow to turn and both the gear box and motor had old grease in them. this one is getting a new

Since we are rebuilding these, he wants to make this perfect because it has been a royal pain so far, so let's do it once. Some of the usual parts vendors show schematics with the "brass ball" whereas others do not. While we try to source a used motor housing with the pressed in bushing, we are busy getting rebuild parts. Thus this post.

Any help?

Thank you again.

Gary

[Tom E.]

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?108979-1967-Body-Lift-for-Chassis-amp-Frame-Restoration&p=762463#post762463

[Gary S.]

Re: C2 headlight motor design changes?

Tom,
Thank you. I have read Richard's posts extensively but there are actually a couple of sites showing rebuilding the motors without the brass ball. That is why I posted.

The motor with the ball but without the brass pressed in bushing has a 90 something build date stamp on it, runs well but has a lot of end play as I mentioned. Oh well, it gives us something else to do.

Thanks,
Gary

ps, I just re-read Richard's headlight motor rebuild. That is probably going to be my "go to" article but I doubt I will go to that level, lacking confidence and perhaps the skills to do that.

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 headlight motor design changes?

Gary any chance you can post some photos of the motor pieces showing the armature shaft ends and motor endplates and bushings? I'm a bit confused.

".....left motor had a "ball shaped" brass bushing on the lower end of the armature shaft but no pressed in brass bushing in the motor case."

This is telling me the bushing is seized on the shaft and pulled out of the housing bushing retainer spring plate.

".....the right motor does not have the brass ball on the armature shaft but does have the pressed in bushing in the motor case."

This is telling me the bushing is correctly in place in the housing round retainer spring plate.

This what it should look like. The bushing is retained and floats in the end housing.
Jerry_HL_Motor_0024.jpg Jerry_HL_Motor_0021.jpg

This is a heater motor but similar design armature bushing and retainer spring plate. This is what happens when the bushing is seized on the shaft and a empty hole in the housing where the bushing was. Is this what your left motor looks like? If so, I'd use CRC FreezeOff to free the bushing. The bushing retainer spring plate is a bit of a challenge but doable on the HL motors.
PB190036.jpg PB190038.jpg PB190039.jpg PB190047.jpg

[Gary S.]

Re: C2 headlight motor design changes?

Richard,
I will take the motors apart later today but, after reading the previous link to your headlight motor rebuild, I am pretty certain that a previous owner worked on this. Poorly, I might add. The ball or bushing was free floating on the shaft and not secured in the bottom of motor case. Your article showing how you repaired the bushing and retaining plate. That was the first time that I saw how the motor should be set up. The one thing I didn't see in your most excellent repair article is whether or not there is s pressed in bushing at the bottom of the motor housing.

I will take photos later.

Thank you,
Gary

[Gary S.]

Re: C2 headlight motor design changes?

I did take the motors apart and, too my surprise, the one that I said had a "pressed in bushing" did not. It had the brass ball held in by the "spring fingers" as shown in Richard M's excellent headlight rebuild article (see post #2 above). Richard's article is so informative that I had it opened up while examining this motor built on 7-66. We need to see whether it is original after we look at his serial number.

When I looked at the motor rebuilt in the early 90s, the ball was free floating on the shaft, the spring "fingers" and retainer were gone, and the shaft itself had a tremendous amount of free play. Someone definitely had a lazy day when they rebuilt this motor. In addition, we were ready to order the motor brace since they weren't on when we removed the motors - they were just free hanging. I gingerly stuck my head under the front and noticed that both motor braces and attaching hardware were still there. They hadn't been hooked up.

So, a new motor is on order plus all of the pivot balls and associated bits & pieces.

Final question, do most of you who have pulled C2 buckets out generally remove the bumpers and grill? I have seen some photos both ways. It seems far easier to remove the headlight buckets through that opening.

thank you for the help.

Gary