Steering column off angle

[John P.]

Hello all,

Some years back I had several things done by a restorer regarding my 1965 convertible 327/350 C2. The car was not an original
power steering vehicle, but a kit power steering installation was done when I purchased it, always has worked well without issue.

I do recall that the steering box and rag joint were rebuilt by the restorer. When I received car back, I noticed that the steering column was, and is, canted to the right such that the angle with the dash is less than 90 degrees, angling to right. It is not severe, there is a small amount of play in the wheel, can't tell if any different that before the work was done.

I have examined box, rag joint and AIM but not sure how to correct this. I don't want to start taking things apart without a plan.

Suggestions? Hard to capture any of this in photos. Thanks

[Mark E.]

Re: Steering column off angle

I cant' see what you're referring to from the photos.

Are you sure what you're describing isn't typical? I don't know the answer to this: What is the typical angle between the steering column and the plane of the cowl/dash? It's not exactly 90 degrees on my C3.

The angle is determined by the position of the steering box and mounting bracket on the dash. Why would this be affected because the rag joint was replaced or power steering was added?

[John P.]

Re: Steering column off angle

A bit subtle but definitely off from its original position. It seems that the column was loosened and pulled part way out of position to allow the original rag joint rivets to be drilled out. It may not be functionally important, just would like to know if there is a reasonably simple way to bring to 90 degrees.
Sorry the photos just don't show well . In the engine compartment the end of the column is off perpendicular , angling downward.

[Mark E.]

Re: Steering column off angle

The column-to-dash mounting holes are slotted (on C3 at least). Have you tried adjusting this?

[John P.]

Re: Steering column off angle

no is that inside the engine compartment or on the driver side of the firewall?

[Michael M.]

Re: Steering column off angle

I would loosen up all the locations were the column attaches to its mounting points and try to move the column towards center.

[Richard M.]

Re: Steering column off angle

Michael, The problem with doing that is that the column to cluster escutcheon is in a fixed position where it attaches with the 2 screws under the cluster.

John, I've had the same issue on several midyears(and C1's) I've restored. Do you know if the body was off the frame in its past life? If so its likely that the body is slightly shifted/twisted with relation to the frame.

Of course this would require a major amount of work to realign...loosening all body mounts, bumpers and their brackets, etc, then kicking the nose over.

When I do a body off on any C1 or C2 I always check the column to be 90* and perpendicular to the dash. It often requires some body movement before tightening the body mounts.

I suspect this may be what you're up against.

What you may be able to do to avoid major work is to add some shims between the steering box and frame, positioned at the mount bolts to shift the box away from the frame. This will move the top end of the column at the wheel to the left to get closer to 90*. It's very possible the box had shims there before the box was removed for restoration and were forgotten on reassembly.

However if you add shims, this may then require some adjusting of the tie rod ends to recenter the road wheels with respect to the steering wheel when it's centered.

Rich

[Douglas L.]

Re: Steering column off angle

I have always thought the car's original design for the steering wheel had the steering wheel slightly offset to the right. The car I have is that way.

IMG_8900.jpg

[John P.]

Re: Steering column off angle

I have reason to think that the body has never been off of the frame. Not positive though.

I tend to notice small things like this, and I do not believe that the angle was off prior to the steering box rebuild.

What is normally used for shims? And what placement for them in this case?

[Richard M.]

Re: Steering column off angle

I have always thought the car's original design for the steering wheel had the steering wheel slightly offset to the right. The car I have is that way.

Doug, How far offset is it? Can you post a photo showing this, similar to John's photo? I've never heard of this steering wheel angle offset design intent before. I know that frame diagram for the lubrication specs shows a steering wheel offset angle but IMO it's a drawing flaw.

The C2 has the engine and driveshaft offset to the right by design, IIRC apx 2 inches. In that drawing you posted this offset is NOT shown. Incorrectly, it shows the engine and entire driveline(including differential) perfectly centered in the frame, and a incorrect image of the differential, which should show a obvious offset of the pinion snout to the right(pass side).

e.g. 1963 coupe showing driveline offset
PC210022.jpg

PC210023.jpg

PC210024.jpg

I have reason to think that the body has never been off of the frame. Not positive though.

I tend to notice small things like this, and I do not believe that the angle was off prior to the steering box rebuild.

What is normally used for shims? And what placement for them in this case?

John,

I'm thinking something was there before too and wasn't replaced. Either that or your original box was exchanged for another and the replacement is causing this. Just reaching here for any other possible explanations.

But as I mentioned, body to frame alignment anomalies can cause problems like this much later in a restoration. I suppose it's quite possible many cars were built with offset bodies. I don't believe there was a assembly line spec, but maybe just that it was a known issue and the folks that dropped the bodies had some "eyeball" method to get proper alignment. Again, just reaching.

So......
Before you do this loosen the steering column mount bolts under dash and the firewall bracket clamp holding the column.
Then loosen all 3 steering box frame attachment Carriage bolt nuts about a 1/2" or so. Remove one bolt at a time and add a few 3/8" SAE washers between the box mount flange and frame. This will be trial and error as to how many. This would move the box to the right and thus the steering wheel to the left.

You could use shims also, like the ones for the front control arms, or you can find some u-shaped shims at a auto parts supplier. I'd go with the washers myself as they'd be less conspicuous.

Rich

[Douglas L.]

Re: Steering column off angle

Rich and John,

See pics. It hard to measure. But, I did run bar attached to the steering wheel from driver door to passenger door. The pics show the difference of where the bar is on the driver door pull handle compared to the passenger door pull handle. A casual observer would never see the angle. I have one restored car and one non-restored and the angle is present in both. With the under dash column adjustments, the angle could be more or less depending on those adjustments.

IMG_8918.jpgIMG_8916.jpgIMG_8915.jpgIMG_8913.jpg

[Richard M.]

Re: Steering column off angle

Doug, Thanks for the photos. Good idea using the straightedge to show the angle on yours.

So I'm thinking we're in some new territory that I've never seen questioned before. I spent some time reviewing the 5 midyear AIMs and there are no references to any specifications regarding steering wheel/mast jacket to the instrument cluster/seat being perpendicular(90*) or not.

As I mentioned, the governing factor is the relationship of the body mounts to the frame and the ability to shift the body on the frame a small amount in all directions. Granted this tolerance is small but this shifting can affect many further assembly areas, namely:

-Radiator core support to frame horns
-Front Bumpers mount points to side of fenders and lower bumper supports to frame crossmember alignment
-Rear Bumpers mount points to side of fenders and backup shims to frame thickness
-Fuel Tank Neck and Filler centering to rear deck opening
-Front/Rear Tire/Wheel assembly depth into wheelhouse
-Undercar Exhaust Tailpipe extension centering at rear valence
-Side Dual Exhaust Pipe to Cover forward attach brackets
-Forward Splash Shield attachment between frame and body
-Manual transmission Clutch Pedal Rod to Clutch Crossbar
-Accelerator Lever to engine throttle levers
-Shifter centering in tunnel and Center Console Trim/Boot
-Steering Mast Jacket angle to Instrument Cluster and Seat
-some I may have overlooked

Slight shifting of the body on the frame can affect all of the above and can require additional adjusting("cheating") for best fit. It may be possible that when these cars were built it was a trial and error process for each one and some cars had bodies more offset with respect to the frame than others. It wasn't exact science using calipers and laser pointers. It was somewhat crude and "close enough" technology. I'd say some cars had straighter steering columns/wheels than others and likely each car was a bit different. Some more pronounced that others.

Until I see or hear of definitive proof these cars had a designed in steering column offset I'll have to remain convinced of the above. What I like about all of this is that it's yet another one of those "still learning" moments.

Rich

[John P.]

Re: Steering column off angle

These are helpful photos. I think my steering column has a similar orientation, especially compared to the last photo.

So are these angles just a result of a design flaw, or an assembly peculiarity? Seems quite odd that this would be something that persisted past year one of the midyears. Surely there isn't a logical reason to do this intentionally.

[Richard M.]

Re: Steering column off angle

These are helpful photos. I think my steering column has a similar orientation, especially compared to the last photo.

So are these angles just a result of a design flaw, or an assembly peculiarity? Seems quite odd that this would be something that persisted past year one of the midyears. Surely there isn't a logical reason to do this intentionally.

John, I was composing my previous post when you posted yours yesterday.....Must have been telepathy as it almost seems I was answering your questions while you were typing..... If this was done intentionally I absolutely don't understand the reasons either.

Here are my opinions as to what the detriments would be with the steering wheel column angled/canted to the right........

- Reduced driver entry space: For larger drivers, since the wheel is canted right, the left side of the wheel would be closer to the vertical seatback. This would reduce the area for the driver to comfortably get into the seating position. Of course the seat could be slid to the rear via the seat track adjuster, but would seem unusual to do that every time the driver needs to exit the vehicle.

- Unequal arm length: When driving, the stretched arms of the driver would not be equal with respect to the wheel. This may be a negligible amount but non the less a oddity and may feel strange to some drivers.

- Safety Issue: The mechanical connection between the column(mast jacket)steering shaft and steering coupler(rag joint) could be misaligned. This could cause slightly harder steering due to the coupler offset angle resistance as well as additional flexing of the coupler rubber over time which could reduce its life.

- Optically unusual: If viewed from a certain angle, visibly this looks like either a design anomaly, a manufacturing defect, or reassembly flaw. i.e. a poor quality "feature".

If the steering wheel column angled/canted to the left, all of the above except the first one.

Rich
PS Edit..... I created a Poll asking others for help HERE

[Harry S.]

Re: Steering column off angle

Different opinion...

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ng+wheel+angle