1969 SB Fuel Pump question

[Joe L.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Joe,

From looking at label M, it appears to be nearly exact. Here's a picture with the fuel line configured as Dr. Rebuild has it in his drawing so you can see what you think.

Tom

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100828[/ATTACH]

Tom------


Yes, it looks to be the same. VERY unlikely a field fabrication and showing just enough "wear-and-tear" to be likely too old to be a reproduction. I'd say likely an original.

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Interesting. I find it very odd that I would have this fuel line with a 1970-style fuel pump that appears dated to align with the October build date of my car, but this combination seems to be an anomaly.

On a different note, do you happen to know the length of the bolt that connects through A.I.R. bracket through the water pump? I'm assuming it's about 2 3/4" long with a lock washer...painted (along with the spacer) since it was installed with the engine prior to the engine being painted. Am I assuming these things correctly? I can't seem to find a good picture of that bracket on a car.

Tom

[Joe L.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Interesting. I find it very odd that I would have this fuel line with a 1970-style fuel pump that appears dated to align with the October build date of my car, but this combination seems to be an anomaly.

On a different note, do you happen to know the length of the bolt that connects through A.I.R. bracket through the water pump? I'm assuming it's about 2 3/4" long with a lock washer...painted (along with the spacer) since it was installed with the engine prior to the engine being painted. Am I assuming these things correctly? I can't seem to find a good picture of that bracket on a car.

Tom

Tom------


Yes, I find it very odd, too. A heretofore unknown installation. But, "all the stars seem to line up" for it being original.

The bolt through the lower leg of the AIR bracket was 3/8-16 X 2-1/2", GM 280M material (3 lines), and phosphate finished. Probably GM #9419059. There was a 1/2" spacer, GM #3877600, between the bracket leg and the waterpump. I do not recall if a lockwasher was originally used but I think not..

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Thanks Joe. I've installed the bracket using a bolt I purchased. Not the correct head marking, but I'll see if I can locate one. Does the A.I.R. bracket have to be removed to get the valve cover off? Seems like the corner of the bracket would make valve cover removal difficult. On another note, I think I'd like to have a 69 A.I.R pump. They seem fairly easy to find, not too expensive, but what date code should I be looking for for my mid-October build date? If you don't mind, take a quick peek at this one on ebay and let me know what you think. I have no idea what a "fair" price would be on one of these. And I truly appreciate all your help though this. - Tom

https://www.ebay.com/i/143684567498?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=143684567498&targetid=935431405333&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9015782&poi=&campaignid=10829254281&mkgroupid=106351005733&rlsatarget=pla-935431405333&abcId=9300396&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr6v0wP3I6wIVD4zICh1CSA_WEAQYFiABEgI91_D_BwE

[Joe L.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Thanks Joe. I've installed the bracket using a bolt I purchased. Not the correct head marking, but I'll see if I can locate one. Does the A.I.R. bracket have to be removed to get the valve cover off? Seems like the corner of the bracket would make valve cover removal difficult. On another note, I think I'd like to have a 69 A.I.R pump. They seem fairly easy to find, not too expensive, but what date code should I be looking for for my mid-October build date? If you don't mind, take a quick peek at this one on ebay and let me know what you think. I have no idea what a "fair" price would be on one of these. And I truly appreciate all your help though this. - Tom

https://www.ebay.com/i/143684567498?...iABEgI91_D_BwE

Tom------


On my 1969 the right side valve cover could be removed without removing the AIR pump bracket. It looks to me that the fuel line would be a bigger problem but I can't comment on that because I have the traditional 1969 fuel line set-up. Someone with a 1970-71 with Q-Jet will have to comment on that.

I would not buy the pump you have linked on eBay. For one thing, the item description says the pump has been gutted. I would never buy a gutted pump. These pumps are not that hard to find. This style pump was used on many 1969-71 Chevrolet and other GM cars. The bigger and more expensive problem will be finding a correct diverter valve. The pump should be dated about a week to 6 months prior to the car's build date to be considered NCRS-correct as to dating.

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Thanks Joe. I love a good hunt, and if I don't start trying to put a correct system together now, the original parts are not going to get easier to come by as time passes. Outside of the pump being gutted, is that the correct pump? I thought I read where the date code stamp needs to have an "S" in the stamp for the Saginaw plant. Is that correct? I'm thinking I could capture a picture of that pump and use it for reference. Also, you forgot to mention the price on an original 3932458 DA pulley. I think those things must be made of some precious metals based on the price. :-)

[Mark E.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

The Dr Rebuild line is what I see on 70-71 Q-Jet small blocks without AIR. It sits relatively high from the valve cover and has two simple 90 degree bends between the carb and the head.

The fuel line shown on the car is what I see on post-71 Q-Jet small blocks with AIR. It has a compound bend that keeps the line close to the valve cover (presumably to clear the AIR hardware). Was this line also used on Corvette before '72?

[Joe L.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Thanks Joe. I love a good hunt, and if I don't start trying to put a correct system together now, the original parts are not going to get easier to come by as time passes. Outside of the pump being gutted, is that the correct pump? I thought I read where the date code stamp needs to have an "S" in the stamp for the Saginaw plant. Is that correct? I'm thinking I could capture a picture of that pump and use it for reference. Also, you forgot to mention the price on an original 3932458 DA pulley. I think those things must be made of some precious metals based on the price. :-)

Tom----


Yes, the pump is the correct configuration. This style pump was used from 1969-71. An "S" is part of the date code sequence of these pumps. It's stamped into a flat on the aluminum housing of the pump. I cannot discern it on the pump you linked.

The 3932458 pulley is very difficult and, thus, expensive to find.

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

This is the mystery Mark. My car has a 1970-style pump with a date stamp that would be about right for my car's build date (October 22, 1969). I'm sure my car had the smog equipment from the factory, but I'm trying to figure out why I don't have the 1969-style fuel lines and pump. The pump appears to be original to the car given the date stamp, but it's not correct according to anyone that knows these cars. I'm really confused as to why/how someone would come up with a correctly-stamped 1970 pump and put it on my car, changing out the fuel lines as well. If one was going to do that type of research, why not find a correct 1969 pump? Changing out the lines and pump seems like a lot of extra work for nothing...and all this was before 1996 when I bought the car as I've not messed with the fuel system since I purchased it.

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Last question (I hope). There appears to be a long (4-5 inch) or so spacer that the 5 1/4" pivot bolt passes through on that pump. Is that normal? My assembly manual doesn't show that spacer built into the pump and other pumps I'm seeing don't show it either.

Tom

[Joe L.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Last question (I hope). There appears to be a long (4-5 inch) or so spacer that the 5 1/4" pivot bolt passes through on that pump. Is that normal? My assembly manual doesn't show that spacer built into the pump and other pumps I'm seeing don't show it either.

Tom

Tom------


The tube-like spacer is part of the pump assembly.

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

Thanks Joe. I really appreciate your patience and I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge with me.

Tom

[Mark E.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

This is the mystery Mark. My car has a 1970-style pump with a date stamp that would be about right for my car's build date (October 22, 1969). I'm sure my car had the smog equipment from the factory, but I'm trying to figure out why I don't have the 1969-style fuel lines and pump. The pump appears to be original to the car given the date stamp, but it's not correct according to anyone that knows these cars. I'm really confused as to why/how someone would come up with a correctly-stamped 1970 pump and put it on my car, changing out the fuel lines as well. If one was going to do that type of research, why not find a correct 1969 pump? Changing out the lines and pump seems like a lot of extra work for nothing...and all this was before 1996 when I bought the car as I've not messed with the fuel system since I purchased it.

One theory: An early owner wanted the AIR gone (a common mod back in the day) and didn't want the fuel filter flapping about. So he/she removed the AIR system, then changed the pump to accommodate a single fuel line to the carb.

[Thomas C.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

I agree something is amiss. I'm going back with the standard 69 setup. I'll hang on to that pump just in case. I just find it odd that the pump is such a good match date-wise.

[Joe L.]

Re: 1969 SB Fuel Pump question

One theory: An early owner wanted the AIR gone (a common mod back in the day) and didn't want the fuel filter flapping about. So he/she removed the AIR system, then changed the pump to accommodate a single fuel line to the carb.

Mark------


A problem with this theory: given the date on the pump, the conversion must have happened a long time ago, circe 1969-71. The OEM-configured fuel lines were never available from GM and their reproduction availability did not occur until somewhat later.

If this car was a pre-September, 1969 build, I would say there was absolutely no chance it is original with respect to the fuel pump. However, it just so happens it's a very late build, after 1970 production had begun for most GM cars.