A6 seal leaks!!

[Joe L.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Huh?

https://news.timken.com/2009-12-31-Timken-Finalizes-Sale-of-Needle-Roller-Bearings-Business-to-JTEKT

Here's some excerpts from the link:
CANTON, Ohio: Dec. 31, 2009 — The Timken Company (NYSE: TKR) today announced it completed the sale of its Needle Roller Bearings business to Japan’s JTEKT Corporation.

JTEKT Corporation (“JTEKT”, www.jtekt.co.jp/e) is a leading Japanese manufacturer of steering systems, driveline components, bearings and machine tools. The company’s bearings solutions are used in a wide variety of applications, including automobiles, jet engines, windmill power generators, and shinkansen (bullet trains). JTEKT was formed in January 2006 following the merger of Toyoda Machine Works Ltd. and Koyo Seiko Co. Ltd. Koyo Seiko was founded in 1921, and Toyoda Machine Works in 1941.

Looks like Timken NEEDLE ROLLER BEARINGS and Koyo have been "associated" since 2009.

Took me less than 2 minutes to duckgogo this Joe. You could have done the same.

The original post implied (at least to me) that Koyo had taken over or bought out Timken. I did research that because I was a bit startled by it. I found it not to be the case.

The fact that Koyo had simply purchased one of Timken's product lines (and, likely, a rather small one it's only had since its take-over of Torrington), does not mean that Timken or Koyo are either "associated" (your term) with each other or "connected" (my term) with each other. The only relationship between the two companies is that they remain competitors for many of their product lines.

[Joe L.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Gary,
Joe lucia likes Jap bearings and my tech friend says he orders bearings for severe duty when he builds machines.
My best guess is that the price is way up there. I remember the 3/4 up and down rule along with the belt MUST contact at least 1/3 of any pulley.
In most shops when a belt is installed it is over tightened because it will stretch. The days of having a customer come back to get the belt adjusted after it stretched (broken in) are gone. So are the days of removing the exhaust manifolds to re-torque the heads.

Dom

Dom------


Are you saying that your friend orders and prefers Japanese-manufactured bearings?

[Terry M.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Terry,
What I see is a severly worn clutch and pulley. As you know the clutch is metal to metal and cycling wears them to the point of the pulley de-laminating and in some cases the clutch getting so hot the rubber de-laminates from the clutch. I am a believer that engagement should be done at low RPM. Cycling happens at any RPM. I saw sparks from the pulley and clutch when engaged at about 3,000.

Dom

I too am a believer in engaging the AC clutch at low RPM, but the GM designed SCOT system I referred to above worked well for me. I assUme that the Harrison/Delco/Chevrolet engineers who designed that system would take into account the accelerated wear that that system would put on the A6 clutch.

[Joe L.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Dom, do you have the manufacture of the bearing, part number, size, and dimensions of the bearing? Would like to see what my son could find out about it.

Gary------


The original bearing was NDH GM #907257. Later, GM #908287 and later yet GM #6557684. The last part number was a Japanese-manufactured bearing. It's now GM discontinued without supersession.

[Joe L.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

By the way, as far as bearings go we think of Timken as an American company and it is. But that does not mean that all of the bearings available under the Timken brand are made in the USA. They once were but have not been exclusively USA manufactured for many years. They have plants all over the world. Many bearings, especially for older applications, are manufactured in other countries. Brazil is a major one that I've seen on Timken boxes for many years. I would not be surprised if some are not made in China now. I regard a Timken bearing, regardless of where manufactured, to be a quality product. Timken is a company with integrity; they're not going to allow their reputation to be sullied by not maintaining the same kind of quality control in their foreign factories as their USA factories. If they were going to come out with a line of "economy" bearings, they'd likely establish another brand name for such a line.

[Domenic T.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Joe,
He didn't mention brand names or other. He said he orders the top line bearings because of failure on lesser. Now when I roller bladed, They came with abec1, or abec 3 class bearings. To get a longer stride we bought abec 5. I was not a believer till I switched roller blades with my friend. I was amazed what a better bearing could do. I don't know if I spelled abec right or if it is 4 letters. When I went to the shop I asked for abec 5 replacement bearings.

Dom

[Joe L.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Joe,
He didn't mention brand names or other. He said he orders the top line bearings because of failure on lesser. Now when I roller bladed, They came with abec1, or abec 3 class bearings. To get a longer stride we bought abec 5. I was not a believer till I switched roller blades with my friend. I was amazed what a better bearing could do. I don't know if I spelled abec right or if it is 4 letters. When I went to the shop I asked for abec 5 replacement bearings.

Dom

Dom------


Were the bearings you got of Japanese manufacture?

[Domenic T.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Dom the A6 in my dads 67 427 car was rebuilt and the seal lasted 6 months. So we been looking for a local shop who is willing to work on it and trying to find one that will last longer.

Keith,
I hate to say this, but there could be a reason the seal went out. Worn shaft, rust, or whatever. Replacing the seal is a shot in the dark sometimes. All but a tiny few ceramic seals I removed would be good to use with 2 new O-rings. The original clutches must have been hand laid when riveted together. Put one on the lathe and they are even off centered which is a balance problem. I find bad shafts where the shaft roller bearing surfaces on the shaft are worn from the hub clutch engaging off center and causing a balance problem when the clutch unit becomes 1. You can tell because only 1 side of the shaft is worn and the other surface is worn 180 from the other.

dom

[Domenic T.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Dom, do you have the manufacture of the bearing, part number, size, and dimensions of the bearing? Would like to see what my son could find out about it.

Gary,
I'll take a look. Joe had some numbers. I feel lucky to get what I can get.

Dom

[Domenic T.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Dom------


Were the bearings you got of Japanese manufacture?

Joe,
will look, but my best guess is China on all the parts I am able to get.

Dom

[Keith B.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Keith,
I hate to say this, but there could be a reason the seal went out. Worn shaft, rust, or whatever. Replacing the seal is a shot in the dark sometimes. All but a tiny few ceramic seals I removed would be good to use with 2 new O-rings. The original clutches must have been hand laid when riveted together. Put one on the lathe and they are even off centered which is a balance problem. I find bad shafts where the shaft roller bearing surfaces on the shaft are worn from the hub clutch engaging off center and causing a balance problem when the clutch unit becomes 1. You can tell because only 1 side of the shaft is worn and the other surface is worn 180 from the other.

dom

the shop who rebuilt the compressor used a new re-man unit and swapped out the ware parts into the original "dated case" . then they charged the system with R12 and had it blowing cold. We only used the AC a had full of times until it started to sling oil onto the hood. So if you have a part number for a seal that would be great.

[Domenic T.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

the shop who rebuilt the compressor used a new re-man unit and swapped out the ware parts into the original "dated case" . then they charged the system with R12 and had it blowing cold. We only used the AC a had full of times until it started to sling oil onto the hood. So if you have a part number for a seal that would be great.

Keith,
I have a preferred one that is available at Auto Zone. I bought 1 when my shipment was late. I had my Santech parts book. Santech # MT- 2037 is the possibly new # which I have ordered from another supplier. K13-3115 is the same part in the Santech book, and the parts person found it.
I am talking with another member that says he has a vidio on the rebuild. No such thing! It is a re-seal vidio that doesn't get into pistons, rings, shaft bearings, thrust spacer/bearings and ant surfacing. There was a good place in Texas, DELTA INDUSTRIES. Thew went out of business, but I bought some of their rebuilds only to get back plates, shafts, main valve plates, pulleys, and hub clutches. No custom work just did as good as they could with used parts. Also called other rebuilders and asked where the got certain parts and they said they just used old parts.
The part # I gave shows a green O-ring in the book. When you buy you get a black O-ring. In all cases the seal should be taken apart and the O-ring changed because the spring pressure on it distortes it and I have had the fail on the test.
Hate to say it but maybe you will be better with the lip seal, because it could handle more contamination on the shaft that is impossible to clean with the comp together. The lip seal vs the 2 part ceramic seal is much easier, but the ceramic was built for a lifetime.
Keith, new reman? Was it a new comp or a reman? they seem to get words mixed up. There is a new clutch hub out that is right on. Turns true, but the face is different. it is solid and not with the 3 spokes you have on the 67, or the 6 holes they had on the mid 66 and earlier. I bought 6 clutches @ mnew prices hoping to get something good. 3 were usable.
I assemble different. The seal is aligned to the shaft and then I lower the outer case to the inner case. Distance on spring will be just about 1/8". 3/16'' means the shaft seal missed the flats ground on the shaft to keep it in place.
Glad to help if you decide to go balistic.

Dom

[Joe L.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Joe,
will look, but my best guess is China on all the parts I am able to get.

Dom

Dom-------


A lot of bearings are now of Chinese manufacture. I understand that Chinese interests have been purchasing complete German bearing operations and then moving them lock-stock-and-barrel to China. Tier 1 China bearing suppliers provide bearings to the OEM automotive and other industries.

[Keith B.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Don I am not sure if it was a new one or a reman unit. I just remember the guy saying the innards is metric but there was no issues reusing the original case. Sorry if my terminology is off this is the first time I really had to look into ac compressors

[Domenic T.]

Re: A6 seal leaks!!

Don I am not sure if it was a new one or a reman unit. I just remember the guy saying the innards is metric but there was no issues reusing the original case. Sorry if my terminology is off this is the first time I really had to look into ac compressors

Keith,
No problem, termonalogy was my biggest problem. I have never looked into the metric units as I am into restoration. No doubt that things have been improved over the years, but most of the originals lasted over 20+ years.

dom