C3 gage cluster

[Patrick B.]

Well, removing the right hand dash panel did not give access to the oil pressure line to the gauge. The gauge fitting is a right angle fitting pointed to the left. It looks like I will have to pull the gage cluster back to get to the oil line. I understand the cluster casting is delicate and can be broken if not handled carefully. Any advice from C3 experts about how to remove the radio and get access to the the oil line would be appreciated. I assume the console has to be removed or at least moved back to loosen the gage cluster.

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Well, removing the right hand dash panel did not give access to the oil pressure line to the gauge. The gauge fitting is a right angle fitting pointed to the left. It looks like I will have to pull the gage cluster back to get to the oil line. I understand the cluster casting is delicate and can be broken if not handled carefully. Any advice from C3 experts about how to remove the radio and get access to the the oil line would be appreciated. I assume the console has to be removed or at least moved back to loosen the gage cluster.

Pat

You are in for it now.

Bag and label ALL the screws so you can put them back in the same hole. This is particularily important for the screws from the center IP to each side dash. Put too long a screw in there and it will come out of the side dash; damaging it. And it will look like caca-popo.

Last I did this I had to start at the parking brake console. The trick with that is a bolt the head of which is hidden in the center storage compartment. Remove the cardboard liner in the center storage compartment to access the head of that bolt. Then the side screws for the parking brake console. Then remove the parking brake console.

The front closeouts on each side, in front of the shifter console -- one screw each. Don't pull or jerk in the shifter console yet. Remove cigarette lighter and ash trey. You will probably have to remove the screws for the shifter boot. I am not sure how to do a shiftless car. I just got one of those and haven't done this dance with it yet..

Then one screw pointing up above the windshield washed switch. I think IIRC this is a machine screw.

There is another screw on each side of the center cluster. You have one out already if you have the passenger side dash panel out.

Now the tricky part. Below the radio on each side is stud hanging from the center cluster. The nut on this stud can be accessed from those front close-out openings on each side. My best memory is it is a 7/16 nut, but best to verify that with someone else. I was (in my youth) able to get to those nuts with a 1/4-inch ratchet 6-inch extension, universal joint and the 7/16 socket. I don't remember using a deep socket, but again, that was a long time ago. The trick here is you don't have to (and you don't want to) take the nut all the way off. the shifter console is slotted, so leave the nut on the stud.

With those nuts loose, you can slide the shifter console back. You will only need an inch or two.

Then you should be able to slide the center IP back gently. That should give you enough room to access the oil pressure line.

Consider changing the light bulbs while you are in there. 50 year old bulbs are questionable, but they are probably better quality than you can get today.

Good luck. This is next to the worst job on a C3. The worst is the power brake booster, if so installed.

Someone else who has done this job recently should critique it.

[Patrick H.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Good luck. This is next to the worst job on a C3. The worst is the power brake booster, if so installed.

Someone else who has done this job recently should critique it.

Power brake booster will always be the worst job.

However, getting at the locks in the door I would rate as worse than the center console. Of course, that may be because I've done the console and gauges so often.

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Power brake booster will always be the worst job.

However, getting at the locks in the door I would rate as worse than the center console. Of course, that may be because I've done the console and gauges so often.

After two or three times the center instrument cluster gets easier. True that.

Did I get it right Patrick? It has been a while since I did one. I m no longer limber enough.

[Patrick B.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Thanks for the detailed advice. I have had this car for 48 years and have swapped out two engines, three transmissions, and three rear ends multiple times in the course of autocrossing and drag racing but have never touched the dash board or console. I am tempted to just splice the oil pressure line with a union at the steering column, but the radio has not worked for many years and this would be an opportunity to fix that also.

On that subject, the radio not make a sound, not even static. The remote part of the radio with a single transister and heat sink is now exposed with the left dash panel off. Does this part go bad on a 70. Is there a way of testing it? Who is the best expert to send the radio to for repair?

[Mark E.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Terry,

That's about right. I've never removed the gauge cluster without completely removing the forward console. But I like the idea of not completely removing anything you don't need to.

The tricky part for me is sliding it all back into place without breaking anything. Push not too hard and the gauge cluster will break. I had that happen twice, and the second time I was careful. There's a technique to gently nudging the gauge cluster/front console forward as an assembly as you get them in place. They need to slip farther forward than you'd think so the brake console fits properly (I've seen more than a few cars with the brake console improperly overlapping the forward console). It's hit and miss with the cluster fitting against the dash properly, and the console fitting against the tips of the left and right dash pads.

Yes, leave the nuts on the bottom studs of the gauge cluster. I don't tighten them after assembly- that avoids a lot of hassle for little gain.

[Patrick B.]

[Mark E.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Now, you guys are scaring me. Two broken gage clusters Mark! I am beginning to remember why I’ve been satisfied with a broken radio for the last 20 years.

If you look at it, you can see the gauge cluster is designed with two weak points- one on each side- to break free during a collision. So it's a safety feature- and a repair nightmare. What makes them vulnurable is the cluster/console package requires more than a little pushing to move them into place, and that can stress the cluster's weak points if you're not careful.

The reason why mine broke the second time was it happened when I least expected it- while installing carpet! I loosened up the LH dash pad to remove the LH kick panel in preparation for replacing the carpet. Well, wriggling the LH dash around- even with the cluster screws removed- was enough to snap the dang thing.

The good news is repops are pretty good and "only" about $130. Almost rounding error compared to the $680 spent restoring my radio.

[Patrick B.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

If you look at it, you can see the gauge cluster is designed with two weak points- one on each side- to break free during a collision. So it's a safety feature- and a repair nightmare. What makes them vulnurable is the cluster/console package requires more than a little pushing to move them into place, and that can stress the cluster's weak points if you're not careful.

The reason why mine broke the second time was it happened when I least expected it- while installing carpet! I loosened up the LH dash pad to remove the LH kick panel in preparation for replacing the carpet. Well, wriggling the LH dash around- even with the cluster screws removed- was enough to snap the dang thing.

The good news is repops are pretty good and "only" about $130. Almost rounding error compared to the $680 spent restoring my radio.

I had no idea repairing a C3 radio was so expensive. Mine is just a base radio. Was yours expensive because it was a stereo? Who did the work?

[Mark E.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

I had no idea repairing a C3 radio was so expensive. Mine is just a base radio. Was yours expensive because it was a stereo? Who did the work?

I chose CGR Restoration. Not because they were the cheapest, but Len, the main guy there, came across as competent and thorough. They advertise in Driveline. His basic fee is $500 for my stereo (the regular radio might be less). I paid another $100 for expedited service (a few days instead of a few weeks), plus $80 shipping.

Wait a minute, that doesn't count the $50 I paid to ship it to him. I guess I have a $730 radio.

It looks great, but I haven't installed it yet. Still messing with the carpet...

[John S.]

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Thanks for the detailed advice. I have had this car for 48 years and have swapped out two engines, three transmissions, and three rear ends multiple times in the course of autocrossing and drag racing but have never touched the dash board or console. I am tempted to just splice the oil pressure line with a union at the steering column, but the radio has not worked for many years and this would be an opportunity to fix that also.

On that subject, the radio not make a sound, not even static. The remote part of the radio with a single transister and heat sink is now exposed with the left dash panel off. Does this part go bad on a 70. Is there a way of testing it? Who is the best expert to send the radio to for repair?

Pat
There is no significant difference in the electronics between 1968 to 1972 (and maybe newer, it is just that my knowledge stops at 1972). There are differences between AM/FM mono and AM/FM Stereo (U69/U79), however. The other differences are cosmetic: knobs, number color and face plate). I am not aware of any particular failure item. I have no experience with the rest of your questions. Others will help, I am sure.

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

+1 on the brake booster probably being the worst project on a C3. When I first got my ‘73 I had to replace the booster and drop the clutch/brake pedal assembly for some repairs. Lots of ratchet extensions, universals etc. The only saving grace that a ‘73 doesn’t have the wiper door assembly to contend with.

When removing the gauge cluster and/or radio, I generally try not to remove the center console or the e-brake cover unless absolutely necessary. To get a little more flex in the assembly I remove the RH dash panel, all of the cluster screws and remove the top three screws on the LH side. The allows the dash top pad to flex up a bit to R&R the cluster without breaking it. The two nuts up under the radio are pretty tight to get to. I use a 1/4” socket with some electrical tape wrapped around it so I can finger loosen and tight the nuts, not much room for any kind of wrench in there.

Also on radio, I just sent my AM/FM stereo to Precision Stereo Repair in Utica N.Y. Not sure what the cost will be yet but I spoke to the owner, Robert, and he was a very nice, knowledgeable guy. He said if you’re not popping fuses, the stereo amp is generally okay.

Good luck on your project, keep things sorted as you disassemble and take your time.

Loosening the screws to the upper dash (the ones that are interior color) sounds like a good idea to me. I hope I don't have a need to know for the future. Just don't try to pop the upper dash pad out by bending it to get around the windshield side garnish moldings. When the dash pad was new one could do that, but not after more or less 50 years. That pad will crack so easily you won't believe it.

I am convinced they put the nuts onto the power brake booster studs before the instrument panel (Driver's side) was installed. Not having the IP installed would make getting at those nuts a piece of cake. Now as to how they installed the center IP without breaking that weak point is another question. I have images of a large pile of broken clusters on the side of the assembly line.

The whole C3 interior is a jigsaw puzzle and the key is to remove and then install the pieces in the correct order, even down to tightening the screws/bolts in the proper order.

[Gary B.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Before sending the radio out for repair and spending several $100, check the speakers. If find, 90% of the time, the speakers are bad and not the radio. But the LH speaker is about as fun to put in as the power brake booster !
Gary B

[Patrick B.]

Re: C3 gage cluster

Before sending the radio out for repair and spending several $100, check the speakers. If find, 90% of the time, the speakers are bad and not the radio. But the LH speaker is about as fun to put in as the power brake booster !
Gary B