63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

[Larry M.]

At the Nats last year I think there were only three C2 FI cars, my 64, Dave Strickland's 65 and Chris Moore's 63 Z06. I did not lose any points for my spring but I think one of the others did and the judges were discussing a "steely" blue as being correct. I really couldn't see much difference between mine and the others. Attached is a pic of my DeGregory repro on the car; it passed muster.

Recently I found an NOS version (No box but a very trustworthy source) and I bought it for comparison and possible future use. Two pics are attached. It took several tries to get a pic that showed up the blue. The other non-blue pic is the same spring; just different lighting.

Would a National Judge (or anyone else) comment on whether they think the NOS looks more correct or less?

[Joe R.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Here's a couple of pictures of an NOS spring. Looks like they didn't come in a box as I bought several of these back in the 70's with this wrapper on them.

JRIMG_0146[1].jpgIMG_0147[1].jpg

[Alan D.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Well you guys forced me into looking for my original spring which had some blue left on it, ng for judging so used a JD color.
Put spring away back in 2000 in plastic bag, left in garage all the blue is gone from just sitting there. Looks like Joe takes better care of his stuff then I do.
From memory it's a light blue like Larry's NOS example. Remember the entire area is only 10 points and has a lot of minor parts!

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

At the Nats last year I think there were only three C2 FI cars, my 64, Dave Strickland's 65 and Chris Moore's 63 Z06. I did not lose any points for my spring but I think one of the others did and the judges were discussing a "steely" blue as being correct. I really couldn't see much difference between mine and the others. Attached is a pic of my DeGregory repro on the car; it passed muster.

Recently I found an NOS version (No box but a very trustworthy source) and I bought it for comparison and possible future use. Two pics are attached. It took several tries to get a pic that showed up the blue. The other non-blue pic is the same spring; just different lighting.

Would a National Judge (or anyone else) comment on whether they think the NOS looks more correct or less?

Larry,

I was the the one who got dinged for my spring. Mine had maybe 30% blue paint and 70% natural but definitely had some blue on it. It had passed muster several times before at regional and National events but our mechanical judge needed to find something, I guess. After Greenville I saw JD at Carlisle and bought his reproduction spring. It's all blue and looks real pretty but I like my other one better. Just another subjective NCRS call that wasn't necessary. This judge was looking to deduct for anything that was marginal in his mind.

[John D.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Thanks all for your imput.
Personal information about old JD. I have been down for three weeks now with sciatica nerve pain. After two treatments by a chiro doc I no longer have nerve pain. Muscles are sore in left leg but at least no horrible crippling shock.
Meanwhile it seems there really isn't one correct color of a 63-65 spring. I never discuss or judging especially with my NCRS FI guy position.
And even if I didn't have this "Job" I would not be critical of judges. I am a master '63-'64 judge but basically only know mechanical in detail.
While I was sitting in my lazy boy chair in pain like never before I decided that are much more important things in my life than a color of a spring.
I won't be seeing any of you this year I guess because or the virus. Stay safe and holler if I can answer any of your questions. God Bless, JD

[Larry M.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Joe, what is the part number on your label?

[David H.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Larry, I was the the one who got dinged for my spring. ...

Dave

Curious. What number of points were lost? Expect just Condition points - no Originality points - correct?


Dave

[Joe R.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Larry,

PN 3827005 Group 3.459

JR

[Alan D.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Here is a photo of an old unit of the subject area. It seems the spring was painted silver first then the blue - that may give it the "thin transparent medium blue" color. What do you think? Was any silver paint used first? Possibility the mfg painted silver (some other GM springs are) and then when NPC came out calling for blue the mfg just sprayed it again?
Then there is the question of how the area should be judged relative to CDCIF standards, ie how the 10 points should be split up?

[Larry M.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

I doubt it Alan. The one I bought has a lot of paint missing and it looks like bare metal, althought amazingly not rusty. Joe's pics show rust which means bare metal. The coating reminds me of the dye they use in machine shops for layout but is likely highly thinned paint. For interest I looked up two cars I had pics of....red one in serial 2374 with 70k miles and the black is serial 5297 with 4k miles. I think I sent you all of these pics when I got them a couple of years back.

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Dave

Curious. What number of points were lost? Expect just Condition points - no Originality points - correct?


Dave

One point on condition. I don't have the Judging sheets handy but as I recall the spring was part of a bigger collection of items. Maybe likkqge ???? One point on a single item that is part of a group seemed like a lot in addition to the fact that the call itself was subjective.
As a judge I subscribe to the "dot" concept in these situations.

[Troy P.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

So the Judging Manual is correct? Early 63 springs gray and later blue like the service replacements.

[Loren L.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Is there an earlier thread about this, perhaps as a thread started by Bill Clupper? One of the "side tunnels" in my memory bank seems to indicate such and at the time (mid-'70s) I had custody of an early 375 plenum (#1208) and its attachments (a silver spring) and two additional that I had purchased (blue).

[Alan D.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Show here is the time frame on the blue spring

[Joe R.]

Re: 63-65 FI Bellcrank Spring Color

Thanks for your input! We need more written evidence to keep the speculation down to a tolerable level. That will probably mean some late 375 and all 375R's along with all 380 units would have blue springs.

Just exactly what John DeGregory said several comments ago. His experience is what really matters when it comes to FI units!

JR