Head gasket or more? - NCRS Discussion Boards

Head gasket or more?

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  • Oliver S.
    Very Frequent User
    • December 1, 1999
    • 341

    #31
    260DAD15-B540-490F-81C0-94785D78A68A.jpgA82B0455-7A2F-481B-917B-DBBF7749222D.jpeg

    Oliver

    Comment

    • Dick W.
      Former NCRS Director Region IV
      • June 30, 1985
      • 10483

      #32
      Re: Head gasket or more?

      I realize you are not in the US, but here we have a few companies that specialize in repairing cast iron cylinder heads and blocks. They have a large oven they slowly heat the casting up to the desired temperature, remove it, repair the damage, then put it back in the oven and very slowly bring the temperature back down. Over the last 50 years I have probably sent them over 100 blocks and heads for repair with zero problems.

      Cast is a very difficult material to weld in that it does not tolerate rapid heating or cooling.
      Dick Whittington

      Comment

      • Joe L.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • February 1, 1988
        • 43211

        #33
        Re: Head gasket or more?

        Originally posted by Oliver Schoenhaar (33229)
        Joe,

        metal stitching - if this is name of the technique you have in mind - is not used here in Germany. So I would be completely on my own, ordering and applying it. Whereas, laser welding as another option is offered here - even in the next town. Neither, my shop nor the shop that did the pressure test have had any good experiences with this. The latter one gave up having heads fixed by laser welding 8 years ago done by specialized shops. Apparently, laser welding has improved but seems to be a bit of a gamble. Aggravating to my situation is that the other head’s intake valves are leaking oil, which was discovered while removing the valves to have a look at the reworked seats.
        Here are the pics of the head ... one while pressure tested the other with the marked area where the tiny hole is.
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]99878[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]99879[/ATTACH]

        Oliver

        Oliver------


        I was referring to the threaded, tapered pin that is used in cast iron stitching. However, if you only have a small pin hole a single pin should be enough. However, if there is actually a crack line as hi-lited by the dark line in your first photo, that's another story. That type of crack would need to be fixed using stitching if it was to be repaired this way. There's no way you could do that. It requires a real specialist. It's quite tedious and, consequently, expensive.

        By the way, the valve seats in the photo on the right appear very good to me. I don't think they suffer from any recession. From what I can see of them, the exhaust valve seats do not appear to me to have had inserts installed but I would need to look at them more closely to be sure.
        In Appreciation of John Hinckley

        Comment

        • Oliver S.
          Very Frequent User
          • December 1, 1999
          • 341

          #34
          Re: Head gasket or more?

          Joe,

          no it is not the black line in the first pic. The interesting thing there is the whitish, condensing water out of the hole, which is encircled in gray in the second picture... and actually barely visible. Hence, one pin should be sufficient. As mentioned, this method is not available here in Germany ... and I would have to do it by myself.
          Regarding Dick’s mentioned method - yes it is known here - however rarely used. One engine rebuilder sends heads to be repaired like this abroad another one said that due to the unavoidable warpage the intake manifold as well as the other head have to be resurfaced so that everyting fits again.
          Somebody else mentione TIG brazing.
          This all leads me to the plan to use remanufactured heads, put the original ones aside and address them unhurriedly while having a car that drives.
          There is one positive aspect ... the removal of the heads was - according to the shop - no problem, i.e. no stuck or broken bolts etc.. Such challenges are my biggest fear when doing the job by myself - as I experienced when replacing the exhaust manifold on my ‘68 Firebird (this car is more of a training ground to me compared to the Vette) - stuck & broken bolts etc.. So the next - if necessary or intended - removal or replacement of the soon to be installed heads with number matching ones (either remanufactured, original ones or suitable nm and date coded ones, which require time to find) is a job that I’m confident to do it by myself ... during an autumn till spring without any time pressure.

          Oliver

          Comment

          • Oliver S.
            Very Frequent User
            • December 1, 1999
            • 341

            #35
            Attached Files

            Comment

            • Owen L.
              Very Frequent User
              • September 30, 1991
              • 864

              #36
              Re: Head gasket or more?

              Originally posted by Oliver Schoenhaar (33229)
              Since I ordered and received a set of sprays to perform a penetration test I’ve just done it ....
              There is more than a hole in the cumbustion chamber. To me it seems like a hairline crack (the red dots), however, only partly letting water through.
              Yep, looks like a hairline crack. It's too bad you don't have stitching services where you are. That seems an effective and inexpensive fix to these sort of things. I had a never seen before (according to the engine builder and the cylinder repair shop) set of 3 cracks in my 454 head that was discovered during a rebuild this spring. A cylinder head shop stitched them for $100 and pressure tested. Since stitching isn't an option, unless you have an expert cast iron welder do it, I think I'd put this in the corner and use a replacement head - at least for the time being until you find someone who really knows what they're doing.

              Comment

              • Joe L.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • February 1, 1988
                • 43211

                #37
                Re: Head gasket or more?

                Originally posted by Oliver Schoenhaar (33229)
                Since I ordered and received a set of sprays to perform a penetration test I’ve just done it ....
                There is more than a hole in the cumbustion chamber. To me it seems like a hairline crack (the red dots), however, only partly letting water through.

                Oliver------


                If you could ship the head to American Cylinder Head in Oakland, CA, I'm sure they could repair it and they can likely completely rebuild it for you. The cost would probably be comparable to purchasing a rebuilt cylinder head. Even if you were to buy a rebuilt cylinder head from a US source, you would have to pay the shipping cost. Having yours repaired in the US would only add the one-way shipping cost to send your head over.

                americancylinderheads.com
                In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                Comment

                • Gary B.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • February 1, 1997
                  • 7018

                  #38
                  Re: Head gasket or more?

                  Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
                  Oliver------


                  If you could ship the head to American Cylinder Head in Oakland, CA, I'm sure they could repair it and they can likely completely rebuild it for you. The cost would probably be comparable to purchasing a rebuilt cylinder head. Even if you were to buy a rebuilt cylinder head from a US source, you would have to pay the shipping cost. Having yours repaired in the US would only add the one-way shipping cost to send your head over.

                  americancylinderheads.com
                  Joe,

                  On a semi-related note, does American Cylinder Head do the kind of pocket porting that Duke often recommends?

                  Gary

                  Comment

                  • Patrick H.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • December 1, 1989
                    • 11642

                    #39
                    Re: Head gasket or more?

                    Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
                    Oliver------


                    If you could ship the head to American Cylinder Head in Oakland, CA, I'm sure they could repair it and they can likely completely rebuild it for you. The cost would probably be comparable to purchasing a rebuilt cylinder head. Even if you were to buy a rebuilt cylinder head from a US source, you would have to pay the shipping cost. Having yours repaired in the US would only add the one-way shipping cost to send your head over.

                    americancylinderheads.com
                    Or, it appears they have some in stock.
                    You could always just get one from them with a good date, and send yours back as a core.
                    Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                    71 "deer modified" coupe
                    72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                    2008 coupe
                    Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                    Comment

                    • Gary B.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • February 1, 1997
                      • 7018

                      #40
                      Re: Head gasket or more?

                      Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
                      Oliver------


                      If you could ship the head to American Cylinder Head in Oakland, CA, I'm sure they could repair it and they can likely completely rebuild it for you. The cost would probably be comparable to purchasing a rebuilt cylinder head. Even if you were to buy a rebuilt cylinder head from a US source, you would have to pay the shipping cost. Having yours repaired in the US would only add the one-way shipping cost to send your head over.

                      americancylinderheads.com
                      Joe,

                      On a semi-related note, does American Cylinder Head do the kind of pocket porting that Duke often recommends?

                      Gary

                      Comment

                      • Joe L.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • February 1, 1988
                        • 43211

                        #41
                        Re: Head gasket or more?

                        Originally posted by Gary Beaupre (28818)
                        Joe,

                        On a semi-related note, does American Cylinder Head do the kind of pocket porting that Duke often recommends?

                        Gary

                        Gary------


                        That I do not know.
                        In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                        Comment

                        • Joe L.
                          Beyond Control Poster
                          • February 1, 1988
                          • 43211

                          #42
                          Re: Head gasket or more?

                          Originally posted by Patrick Hulst (16386)
                          Or, it appears they have some in stock.
                          You could always just get one from them with a good date, and send yours back as a core.

                          Patrick------


                          The owner of American Cylinder Head (or, at least, the guy that used to own it; he's probably retired or passed away since I was last there) is/was a guy named Einer Elbeck. He was an absolute genius at cylinder head and block repair. Even if he's not still there, I'm sure that shop is well steeped in his methods and skills.
                          In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                          Comment

                          • Oliver S.
                            Very Frequent User
                            • December 1, 1999
                            • 341

                            #43
                            Re: Head gasket or more?

                            I had a look at ACH’s home page ... a suitable head is 411$ including $75 core. Sending a core back wouldn’t make sense in my case due to the higher shipping costs - $150. However, the shop is currently closed due to maintenance. Otherwise I would have sent them pics of the head but I’m afraid that a final verdict, if the head is repairable, can only be made when it is in their shop.

                            Oliver

                            Comment

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