194677s116971 - busted!!

[Leif A.]

I wanted to post this so that this VIN has a permanent, digital footprint on the WWW. I had posted this POP the other day in hopes of finding the current owner, so as to reunite them with their original warranty booklet. A few days after posting, an esteemed member here on the forum sent me a PM with the following information. We all know this happens far too frequently, but when you can document obvious fraud, I believe it my responsibility to do so. Hell, they couldn't even get the build date close. If you want a real laugh, read the description in the advertisement. "Never been apart", "engine and transmission match the VIN tag"...transmission, really?? So, boys, "is it real or is it Memorex?"

Current advertisement:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/corvette/2298374.html#&gid=1&pid=55

[Steve B.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Noted, thank you for sharing this. We all know there are lots more of these type of cars out there. It is my sincerest hope that everyone of them gets busted.

[Tom K.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Wow! Another one of those extremely rare A O Simith big blocks with side pipes. The more you look at the pictures the more you realize what a fake it is. Not sure what numbers they think match?
Tom

[Robert G.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

This coupe has a convertible trim tag. Must be a COPO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Chevrolet-Corvette-Coupe/283867191667?hash=item4217cd9973%3Ag%3AEQAAAOSw-i9er2hP&LH_ItemCondition=2%7C0

[Michael J.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Thanks Leif, and as we all know, far too common out there.........

[Eric T.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Wow! Another one of those extremely rare A O Simith big blocks with side pipes.

[Jack M.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Just to illustrate further... this image illustrates that VIN 194677S116971 appears to have been born as a SMALL BLOCK:

194677S116971_COMPARED.jpg

[Rich G.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Why would someone intentionally create a fake trim tag with info showing an A.O. Smith body on a 67 big block?!? Doesn’t that just prove the bogus tag is bogus.... I’m confused?!?

I bet a lot of casual buyers don’t have a clue. Sellers too.

Is it possible the dealer just took the sellers word for it? Is it also possible that the seller didn’t know the car is fake? Probable? No. Possible? Yes. Has the OP contacted Hemmings or the dealer with this info? That’s the best way to prevent someone from getting stuck. It’s probably a nice driver and a great show and shine car but not at that price. The description should reflect that it’s not a real BB. Is the VIN plate legal? That’s a little more difficult to ascertain but an educated consumer would do that.

Rich

[Frank D.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Seems like more and more of this stuff is showing up. I checked out a split window at a local Orlando classic car dealer for a pal not long ago and the advertised "original" drivetrain included a restamped motor. Even my relatively untrained eye could spot it right off... That doesn't even count the really poor body work done on the car.

I have a hard time believing most of these dealers are completely in the dark about such things...

[Kenneth B.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

What am I missing? I saw a S body # on the trim tag.

[Jim D.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

What am I missing? I saw a S body # on the trim tag.

Here's the tag from the car the OP is referring to.
67665230-770-0@2X.jpg

[Leif A.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

I bet a lot of casual buyers don’t have a clue. Sellers too.

Is it possible the dealer just took the sellers word for it? Is it also possible that the seller didn’t know the car is fake? Probable? No. Possible? Yes. Has the OP contacted Hemmings or the dealer with this info? That’s the best way to prevent someone from getting stuck. It’s probably a nice driver and a great show and shine car but not at that price. The description should reflect that it’s not a real BB. Is the VIN plate legal? That’s a little more difficult to ascertain but an educated consumer would do that.

Rich

Rich,
Hemmings doesn't care...they just sell advertisement space. I did contact the dealer. The individual I spoke with referred me to his General Manager, Cory, whose voice mail I got. I left him a detailed message regarding the fact that the car was a "made up" car and not an original from the factory BB car. Also, told him I was in possession of the POP and that the car was originally a L79 small block. This particular dealer does both consignments and owns some of their cars...individual I spoke with didn't know which one this particular car was. We'll see if the ad comes down.

[Owen L.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

I usually give folks the benefit of the doubt, but come on Hemmings! A long time, noted name in autos... they should know that this sort of inaccurate / deceptive ad reflects upon their reputation. I suppose there's a disclaimer somewhere that they are not responsible for deceptive or erroneous advertising. Too many of these types of misrepresentations though and they lose whatever standing they have.

From what we can tell after having it on a lift is that the car does not appear to have ever been apart. The engine and transmission are matching numbers based on all the numbers we have deciphered from the VIN tag, data plate, title, engine stamp pad, rear end, transmission and carburetors.

First of all, how does looking at it tell you it's never been apart?

(I'm certainly no expert in the following but I do know how to look up information.)

• Isn't the transmission, pic #52, (id# 6S104501) from a '66, #4501? The date on the trans, pic #51, appears to be P0917... Sept 17th. From my readings, the P+4 digit date was used in '66, and earlier, and Sept is too distanced from an April car build date. However, Sept. 17th is a good date for a Nov. 1 built 1966.
• Pic #48 of the rear end code looks to be a Z stamped over an L (?). AL would be applicable to a 327. And, why are 1/2 the stamped characters (Z,6,7) so much crisper than the others?
• How in the world does a VIN tag get so beaten up at the rivets when the Trim tag 1/2" away looks pristine? (pic #46)
• Pic #81: Isn't that the wrong oil pan for a 427 Corvette? Drain plug on the side?

Like I said, benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the dealer really has no clue about this stuff. They did post detailed photos after all. What this absolutely reinforces is that the buyer must to be educated if they care about such things. Out of curiosity, would you say this is a $30k overpayment if indeed it's actually a 327 car?

[Eric T.]

[Rich G.]

Re: 194677s116971 - busted!!

Rich,
Hemmings doesn't care...they just sell advertisement space. I did contact the dealer. The individual I spoke with referred me to his General Manager, Cory, whose voice mail I got. I left him a detailed message regarding the fact that the car was a "made up" car and not an original from the factory BB car. Also, told him I was in possession of the POP and that the car was originally a L79 small block. This particular dealer does both consignments and owns some of their cars...individual I spoke with didn't know which one this particular car was. We'll see if the ad comes down.

Leif, roger.
Looked at the site now. They have that one and a blue 427 coupe with side pipes, also an AO Smith trim tag. They
also have a Black 427 with no side pipes that is a St Louis car. That one is about $40K more asking than the other two.

Rich.