67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

[John C.]

Working on my 67 "HH" K19 only Pulleys. Car is A.I.R. only no L79, AC or PS!
The only reference to pulleys is a chart by Mark Gurney posted on the board about 2010!
My car seems original and has a 3744043 CP and 3900434 WPP. There is less than 1/16" between the 2 pulleys.The 4043 is 6 3/4 OD and 0434 is 7 1/8 ' OD. A.I.R. pump pulley is a 800 that seems correct.
Marks chart shows 3850838 CS pulley and 3900434 WPP that appears to be correct? The 0838 CP OD;;s 7 21/64 (7.33)
and would interfere with the above WP pulley? The 3900434 is listed elsewhere as a 67 Camaro pulley?
So, okay I am confused because there is little info on the HH code engine. Is there a later version of Marks awesome chart?
Any help greatly appreciated, John

[Joe L.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

Working on my 67 "HH" K19 only Pulleys. Car is A.I.R. only no L79, AC or PS!
The only reference to pulleys is a chart by Mark Gurney posted on the board about 2010!
My car seems original and has a 3744043 CP and 3900434 WPP. There is less than 1/16" between the 2 pulleys.The 4043 is 6 3/4 OD and 0434 is 7 1/8 ' OD. A.I.R. pump pulley is a 800 that seems correct.
Marks chart shows 3850838 CS pulley and 3900434 WPP that appears to be correct? The 0838 CP OD;;s 7 21/64 (7.33)
and would interfere with the above WP pulley? The 3900434 is listed elsewhere as a 67 Camaro pulley?
So, okay I am confused because there is little info on the HH code engine. Is there a later version of Marks awesome chart?
Any help greatly appreciated, John

John------

This turns out to be an interesting and thought-provoking question.

GM says that the water pump pulley for your application was the GM #3900434 and the crankshaft pulley was GM #3850838. The late Mark Gorney believed this was correct, too. Until now, I also believed it. However, I've done a little more checking after reading what you report.

The GM #3900434 pulley is 7.13" OD. The GM #3850838 pulley is 7.33" OD. Consequently, the combined radius of the pulleys is 3.57" + 3.66"=7.23". However, the center-to-center dimension of the water pump hub to crankshaft centerline of a small block is 6.94". So, there is no way that the 3900434 pulley and the 3850838 pulley could have been used on the same small block engine.

So, what was used? Well, I guess the best determiner would be a report of what is found on an original 1967 base engines such as yours. My best guess, though, is that the GM #3850838 was used for the crankshaft pulley and a GM #3890419 was used for the water pump pulley. The latter pulley is 6.31" OD. This combination was used for 1968-69 base engine small blocks, all of which were also equipped with AIR (although the AIR pump in those applications was driven from an add-on waterpump pulley). The combined radius of the 3850838 and 3890419 pulleys is 3.66" + 3.16"= 6.82". This would work, albeit with minimal clearance between the pulleys. I can see no reason why this combination would not have worked perfectly for your application. I can tell you, for certain, that this combination will work on a small block because it's exactly how my 1969 300hp small block was originally equipped. In addition, I can tell you, for certain, that there was minimal clearance between the pulleys. But, there was enough that there were no interference problems for 200,000 miles.

The GM #3890419 pulley was available in the GM "parts bin" in 1967 and, thus, could have been used. It's also possible that some other combination was used but, if so, I have not been able to come up with another workable combination from standard groove pulleys existing in 1967 although, I suppose, a deep groove pulley set from SHP application could also have been used. That would have involved the use of a GM #3858533 crankshaft pulley and GM #3848904 water pump pulley.

[Douglas L.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

Not sure if these sheets will help clarify. The information showing is not 100% clear. I have an 67 HH car also, but it cannot be used for reference.

[John C.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

John------

This turns out to be an interesting and thought-provoking question.

GM says that the water pump pulley for your application was the GM #3900434 and the crankshaft pulley was GM #3850838. The late Mark Gorney believed this was correct, too. Until now, I also believed it. However, I've done a little more checking after reading what you report.


The GM #3900434 pulley is 7.13" OD. The GM #3850838 pulley is 7.33" OD. Consequently, the combined radius of the pulleys is 3.57" + 3.66"=7.23". However, the center-to-center dimension of the water pump hub to crankshaft centerline of a small block is 6.94". So, there is no way that the 3900434 pulley and the 3850838 pulley could have been used on the same small block engine.

So, what was used? Well, I guess the best determiner would be a report of what is found on an original 1967 base engines such as yours. My best guess, though, is that the GM #3850838 was used for the crankshaft pulley and a GM #3890419 was used for the water pump pulley. The latter pulley is 6.31" OD. This combination was used for 1968-69 base engine small blocks, all of which were also equipped with AIR (although the AIR pump in those applications was driven from an add-on waterpump pulley). The combined radius of the 3850838 and 3890419 pulleys is 3.66" + 3.16"= 6.82". This would work, albeit with minimal clearance between the pulleys. I can see no reason why this combination would not have worked perfectly for your application. I can tell you, for certain, that this combination will work on a small block because it's exactly how my 1969 300hp small block was originally equipped. In addition, I can tell you, for certain, that there was minimal clearance between the pulleys. But, there was enough that there were no interference problems for 200,000 miles.

The GM #3890419 pulley was available in the GM "parts bin" in 1967 and, thus, could have been used. It's also possible that some other combination was used but, if so, I have not been able to come up with another workable combination from standard groove pulleys existing in 1967 although, I suppose, a deep groove pulley set from SHP application could also have been used. That would have involved the use of a GM #3858533 crankshaft pulley and GM #3848904 water pump pulley.

Actually, I have access to another 67 HH car that I bought from the original woman owner in 1971! My Son has the car now but next time I visit him I will at least measure the crank pulley and hopefully snake my cell phone to get some PN pictures. When I rebuilt that engine I didn't think much about pulleys ... just used what was on there because it worked. This is a very unmolested car and I'm sure that whatever pulley it has on it was used on all HH engines!

[Joe L.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

Actually, I have access to another 67 HH car that I bought from the original woman owner in 1971! My Son has the car now but next time I visit him I will at least measure the crank pulley and hopefully snake my cell phone to get some PN pictures. When I rebuilt that engine I didn't think much about pulleys ... just used what was on there because it worked. This is a very unmolested car and I'm sure that whatever pulley it has on it was used on all HH engines!

John------


That will be very interesting.

The only other pulley combination I can find which might have worked (but, just barely) with standard groove pulleys available at the time would have been the GM #3900434 water pump pulley with a GM #3744043 balancer pulley. However, there would have been only about 1/8" clearance between the pulleys.

[Mike E.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

I just checked an original HH '67 (V0501HH) that has 59k miles and has original motor, trans, rear, tank sticker, etc. I couldn't get to the crank pulley (cold and dark) but the water pump pulley that has been on it forever is 3900434.

[Mike E.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

Crank pulley is 3744043 on this car.

[John C.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

3744043 is the same CP that I have on my car. If my sons very original HH car has the same pulley, it might imply that the initial Parts Book had an error and this was picked up by Mark Gurney many years ago and never questioned because there weren't that many HH cars restored? The only uses for the 3744043 that I found were used on the 67 Camaro & that kinda makes sense,

[Joe L.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

3744043 is the same CP that I have on my car. If my sons very original HH car has the same pulley, it might imply that the initial Parts Book had an error and this was picked up by Mark Gurney many years ago and never questioned because there weren't that many HH cars restored? The only uses for the 3744043 that I found were used on the 67 Camaro & that kinda makes sense,

John------


The GM #3744043 had many applications going back to about 1957. These included Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and GMC truck.

[John C.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

This is from a 1967 HH car that has been in the family since 1971-72 and is very original ... it belongs to my son now! The crank pulley is 3744043 identical to my own HH car and the same as Mike Ernst's friends car. Many HH cars were turned into HE cars to delete the complexity of the A.I.R. system so this difference in the GM published has never been noticed!
Thanks for all of the help on this! John

[John C.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

This is from a 1967 HH car that has been in the family since 1971-72 and is very original ... it belongs to my son now! The crank pulley is 3744043 identical to my own HH car and the same as Mike Ernst's friends car. Many HH cars were turned into HE cars to delete the complexity of the A.I.R. system so this difference in the GM published has never been noticed!
Thanks for all of the help on this! John

[John C.]

Re: 67 "HH" K19 A.I.R' only Pulleys

I forgot to add the picture but software won't let me modify my last post with a picture???