C2 Universal Joints

[Richard G.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Joe;
Should have caught the Spicer logo. Appreciate the information.

The U-Joints and half shafts have a lot of posts on this forum. Seems like it is a simple job at first glance. To do the job correctly is another learning curve. The design of the Corvette rear suspension has half-shaft as an integral part of the suspension. Going inexpensive shouldn't be an option. I learn something every time someone posts.
Looks like you have every joint part number. Thanks as that had to take some time to research.
I do have to ask about GM Part #3849500. Isn't this an original joint for a 63?
Thanks
Rick

[Gary R.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Below is a picture of the GM #89059111:



One distinguishing feature of quality U-Joint is they come with a selection of retaining clips, shown in the bags.
These are for setting up the joint in the center of the shaft and to allow for the correct end play.
Typically in the .002 to .004 range.
I have never actually observed anyone to setting them up correctly.
Typically it's hammer them in and that's it.
Most the time there is no axial play left in the joint because the ears are bent in the removal or installation process.
Although I have used used parts to retain the originality I typically recommend new it they are available.
Mostly because the joint ears are bent.

Joe;
How do you identify joints with the forged, powder metal? I do know this prices is how the connecting rods are made for the LSX motors.
Did you find this information in the specifications or is it identifiable by the way they look?
Rick

Rick
With the exception of the box that sure looks like the current Spicer 1350 joints availble from any Spicer dealer between $20-$30. The white rings replaced the brittle black rings used 10 years ago that broke during installation. I have installed a lot of these and the only one we had break was in my son's 75 st/strip vette. He hooked up and sheared the inner and outer solid joint like snapping a stick. Bent the 1350 Tom's axles as well.

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Joe;
Should have caught the Spicer logo. Appreciate the information.

The design of the Corvette rear suspension has half-shaft as an integral part of the suspension. Going inexpensive shouldn't be an option.

I do have to ask about GM Part #3849500. Isn't this an original joint for a 63?
Thanks
Rick

Rick------


This is EXACTLY the reason that I always use and recommend the very highest quality u-joints for the half-shafts, whether those u-joints are "correct", or not. By the way, ever see what happens if one of these u-joints (or, the u-joint flange) fail catastrophically? It's not a "pretty sight".

As far as the driveshaft u-joint goes, GM #3849580 was actually the 1964 u-joint but, I suppose it could have been used in some part of 1963. GM says the 1963 u-joint was GM #3830580. These are both 1310 series u-joints (at the time called a 1280 series u-joint). All 1953-70 Corvette driveshafts (except 1968-70 with THM-400) used 1310 series u-joints for the drive shaft. The history of them is a little "dis-jointed" and "confounding", though:

GM #3830580>February, 1972>
GM #2448382>December, 1974>
GM #386451>April, 1990>
GM #7849090>September, 1991>
GM #26015249>?

The GM #3849500 took a different track:

GM #3849500>April, 1970>
GM #3955571>January, 1973>
GM #2448382>December, 1974>
GM #386451>April, 1990>
GM #78049090>September, 1991>
GM #26015249>?

To confuse matters even more, in 1966 the Corvette driveshaft u-joint became GM #3889690 which did not supercede earlier part numbers. However, it was discontinued in December, 1971 and replaced by the GM #3955571 which then followed the supercession sequence described above.

Just to be clear, ALL of the above are 1310 (old 1280) series u-joints and all should be functionally interchangeable.

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Rick
With the exception of the box that sure looks like the current Spicer 1350 joints availble from any Spicer dealer between $20-$30. The white rings replaced the brittle black rings used 10 years ago that broke during installation. I have installed a lot of these and the only one we had break was in my son's 75 st/strip vette. He hooked up and sheared the inner and outer solid joint like snapping a stick. Bent the 1350 Tom's axles as well.

Gary-----

Like I've said many times before, it is possible to have too much power and torque in a C2/C3 Corvette. The drivetrain was never designed for the kind of power and torque that some folks seem to want to throw at them in the past or now. Even some of the higher stock power/torque levels of these cars was marginal. Unless someone is willing to seriously upgrade the drivetrain (usually in ways that alter configuration drastically and would be out-of-the-question for Corvette purists), there's no way that power/torque should be increased beyond a modest amount.

[Gary R.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Hi Joe,
You're 100% correct. A stock diff, trailing arms, shaft, frame brackets won't hold a lot of abuse past 450hp. That is why every diff I build has a lot of mods to make it live long under power. The outer axles fail about 500hp depending on traction so I have go to 31's. Yes it can be done but it takes a lot of time and hand fitment to get there. I was amazed when my sheared those solid spicer joints but now I fit 1480 joints so that is not likely to happen again, but you never know!

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

All-------


Well, I now believe the current OEM 1310 series u-joint is GM #89040243. This is a Spicer-manufactured, forged, powder metal u-joint without grease fittings. I believe the Spicer-branded version of this u-joint is their part number 5-1310X. The latter u-joint APPEARS identical to the 89040243. The thing I do not understand is the price difference. The 89040243 currently GM lists for $89.99 but can be purchased for about 60 bucks. The Spicer joint can be purchased for about 15-20 bucks. When I see this kind of price difference I become very suspicious that there actually is some difference, perhaps not apparent, between the u-joints that Spicer supplies to GM and the ones they supply under their own brand.

By the way, in order not to leave the C1 era out of this, I think I figured out the part numbers for the C1 1310 series u-joints. Here it is:

GM #3741635> February, 1961>
GM #3713926> August, 1963>
GM #3828469> July, 1965>
GM #3849500> from here onward same as in my post above

[Richard S.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Hi Joe
No issue installation fine. Each universal unit came with two clip sets.
Rich

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

All-------


Well, I dug out some examples I have of the 1963 u-joint, GM #3830580, and the 1964+ u-joint, GM #3849500 (considering what I had to go through to dig these out I should be canonized a saint).

First, the GM #3830580. Note that this u-joint does have provisions for a grease fitting. Note also the embossments "J N" and "U.S.A". I expect that "J N" identifies the actual manufacturer, likely a once-upon-a-time supplier to GM that has long-since ceased to exist.




Here the GM #3849500. Note that the bearing caps were packaged separately from the u-joint body and that the roller bearings are maintained by a short cardboard tube to prevent their dislodgement when packaged this way. Also not the forging number "3842034" on the body of the joint. This was likely a u-joint manufactured internally by some GM Division.

[Leif A.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

Saint Joseph does have a nice ring to it. Wonder what the logic was behind packing the cap separately. This would have been incrementally more expensive to do and we all know how the General liked to count pennies.

[Duke W.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

" Note that this u-joint does have provisions for a grease fitting."

...but no zerk fitting! Was this u-joint used in '63 production... and you transferred the zerk from the old u-joint if replaced in the field? I don't recall if the original u-joints on my SWC had grease fittings or not as I replaced them all in the mid/later seventies when I rebuilt the axle with the then current GM cataloged part.

GM knew that the early u-joints had a longevity problem having to do with water intrusion that washed out the grease and led to failure. Dave McClellan discusses this issue in his book, and I recall that I had to replace one outboard u-joint in the late sixties at around 60K miles.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 Universal Joints

" Note that this u-joint does have provisions for a grease fitting."

...but no zerk fitting! Was this u-joint used in '63 production... and you transferred the zerk from the old u-joint if replaced in the field? I don't recall if the original u-joints on my SWC had grease fittings or not as I replaced them all in the mid/later seventies when I rebuilt the axle with the then current GM cataloged part.

GM knew that the early u-joints had a longevity problem having to do with water intrusion that washed out the grease and led to failure. Dave McClellan discusses this issue in his book, and I recall that I had to replace one outboard u-joint in the late sixties at around 60K miles.

Duke

Duke------


It's hard to say, for sure, if the GM #3830580 was the u-joint used in PRODUCTION for the driveshaft application for 1963 Corvettes. That's because the driveshafts were supplied as an assembly with u-joints to St. Louis. So, there's no part number information for the u-joints in the AIM. However, the part number sequence "fits" with a 1963 released part number and the 3830580 is the part number specified for the Corvette application in the 1963 P&A Catalog. Since P&A Catalog information almost always originates from PRODUCTION information, I feel pretty confident that the 3830580 was the u-joint used in PRODUCTION. However, for a part like a u-joint, there could have been multiple slightly different configurations for any given part number. After all, these things were being used by the millions across all GM car and truck lines and were not, at all, unique to Corvettes.

As far as the grease fitting goes, these were often supplied separately in the u-joint KIT (all GM u-joints were sold as "kits" or "units" which included other parts (e.g. clips, grease fittings, etc.). The box that my 3830580 was supplied to me had been "molested" and some of the parts were missing (including 2 of the caps). However, I did not purchase this u-joint for potential use. As I often do, I got it for reference and research. It would be usable, though, if I replaced the caps from another compatible u-joint. In fact, GM used to sell u-joint caps separately.

While I have seen several 1310 series OEM/GM drivehaft u-joints with grease fittings, I have never seen an OEM/GM half-shaft 1350 series u-joint with grease fittings.