C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

[Joe P.]

Hey guys, i am trying to troubleshoot some excessive play in my steering., almost 6 inches of play now... I am getting ready to rebuild the steering box, replace the inner and outer tie rods and probably the pitman are bearing.

My question is about the outer tie rods ends, when i raised the car i found i don't have a castle nut on either of the outer tie rods ends. Quite surprised to see this. Is it possible the nuts snapped off at some point or has any one seen this before?

[Joe L.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Joe------

Yes, it looks like the threaded portion of the ball stud and slotted nut is missing. From what I can see of it, it almost looks like someone has "peened" the end of the ball stud to ensure it stays in place. I'm not 100% sure of this, though, as I can't really see it too well in the photos. The fact that both sides are the same tells me that this is not the result of some sort of accidental damage. More likely, it's some kind of "bubba" fix performed by some mechanical klutz.

This is a VERY dangerous situation. I would not drive the car like this.

[Joe P.]

[Patrick S.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Be sure to check all of the upper "A" arm pivot points at the frame. My experience is that the upper rear pivot wears more than the others. It is sometimes lacking lube because it is hard to get to.

[Joe L.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Thanks. I thought it was odd. I think it’s been like that since I got the car 14 years ago!!

Joe------


Count your blessings. Now that you know, though, I would not tempt fate any further.

[Richard G.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Joe Plati.
Be sure you want the headache of rebuilding the steering box yourself?
I am able to do most any job as I have a full machine shop at my disposal.
The Steering box was a major PITA to rebuild correctly. Mostly because the bushing in China rebuild kits are poorly built.
The including bushing ID's and OD's were not concentric (wall diameter varied).
The bushing didn't have the correct crush when installed. No surprise there after finding the wall thickness issue.
All this adds up to putting up with excessive clearances where I didn't want them. As an additional headache the bushing required honing so the bores would line up. I would recommend purchasing NOS bushings if you tackle this job. These were used for decades by GM and they come up on Ebay all the time.
Maybe the bushing are better built now days but somehow I doubt it.
Standard inch bushings will not work as the dimensions are different from the nominal one you buy over the counter.
I got there but it was not an easy task.
Just a heads up from one that has been there and have the hat.
Rick

[Joe P.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

thanks,, give some food for thought... will probably get Joe C. to rebuild the steering box and replace all the tie rods, rebuild the draglink, and replace the pitman bearing, and hopefully that will take care of all the play...

[E B.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Joe, IRT to the steering box have you tried to adjust the lock nut and screw on top.....simple procedure..Ed......try not to open a can of worms

[Joe P.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Thanks Ed, i have adjusted the lock nut in the past. i have now about 6 inches of play and the tie rods must be changed out, as there is a lot of movement here and the outer tie rods aren't held on by a castle nut, take a look at the pics up above.. There is also some clicking coming from the Drag link.. i believe they may be all original parts..

[Joe P.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Just a quick update.. i have removed the entire front suspension and steering... Am doing a full rebuild thanks to alot of posts and videos available.. The outer tie rods were tac welded in place... BUbba was on this job for sure...

[David M.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Unbelievable! I cant believe the rod ends didn't come lose. Very dangerous to you and the car, as mentioned. Who does this kind of work!?! They should never be allowed to pick up another tool...hammer included, unless used on their own head!

If you successfully get the rod ends out inspect the tapered holes in the knuckles for wallowing. You may be in for new knuckles? At that point might as well (MAW) do the whole front end, trust me you wont be sorry. It will drive like a new C1.

One trick I have learned to troubleshoot whats worn out on steering linkage is to have another body in the car rocking the steering wheel back in forth while I lay under the car and look at where the movement is, (chassis loaded, engine running if equipped with PW Steering). This can be performed on a drive-on lift as well. I will actually hold the joint to feel the play if I cant see it.

I know the pic is a C3...68...But this is what the MAWs look like. The only thing that didn't get replaced or restored was the box cuz it was tight. We even replaced the pump. The rear end was freshened up a while back. The UCA bushings were totally disintegrated. Now it drives like a new car. It even received a clutch and new prop shaft joints while it was on the lift. Watch out for the MAWs!

[Joe P.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Joe Plati.
Be sure you want the headache of rebuilding the steering box yourself?
I am able to do most any job as I have a full machine shop at my disposal.
The Steering box was a major PITA to rebuild correctly. Mostly because the bushing in China rebuild kits are poorly built.
The including bushing ID's and OD's were not concentric (wall diameter varied).
The bushing didn't have the correct crush when installed. No surprise there after finding the wall thickness issue.
All this adds up to putting up with excessive clearances where I didn't want them. As an additional headache the bushing required honing so the bores would line up. I would recommend purchasing NOS bushings if you tackle this job. These were used for decades by GM and they come up on Ebay all the time.
Maybe the bushing are better built now days but somehow I doubt it.
Standard inch bushings will not work as the dimensions are different from the nominal one you buy over the counter.
I got there but it was not an easy task.
Just a heads up from one that has been there and have the hat.
Rick

thanks.. i now have the steering box completely apart, and will be putting it all back to gether with CC overhaul kit parts.. I will take a close look at the parts and hopefully they are not chinese parts..

[Joe P.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Unbelievable! I cant believe the rod ends didn't come lose. Very dangerous to you and the car, as mentioned. Who does this kind of work!?! They should never be allowed to pick up another tool...hammer included, unless used on their own head!

If you successfully get the rod ends out inspect the tapered holes in the knuckles for wallowing. You may be in for new knuckles? At that point might as well (MAW) do the whole front end, trust me you wont be sorry. It will drive like a new C1.

One trick I have learned to troubleshoot whats worn out on steering linkage is to have another body in the car rocking the steering wheel back in forth while I lay under the car and look at where the movement is, (chassis loaded, engine running if equipped with PW Steering). This can be performed on a drive-on lift as well. I will actually hold the joint to feel the play if I cant see it.

I know the pic is a C3...68...But this is what the MAWs look like. The only thing that didn't get replaced or restored was the box cuz it was tight. We even replaced the pump. The rear end was freshened up a while back. The UCA bushings were totally disintegrated. Now it drives like a new car. It even received a clutch and new prop shaft joints while it was on the lift. Watch out for the MAWs!

I appreciate your comments, thanks.. I will check the taped holes, the tie rods came out fairly easy, it was really a poor tac weld.. i cant belive i drove it for so long like that.. i did purchase the super front suspension rebuilt kit from CC. and am replacing every part, nut and bolt on the front end along with rebuilding the steering box.. everything is apart except for one upper A arm inner bolt, that is wrecked on one side.. THats tonight's job to get it out. i hope to feel the drive of a new C1 when this is all done.. on the look out for the MAWs!

[Joe L.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

thanks.. i now have the steering box completely apart, and will be putting it all back to gether with CC overhaul kit parts.. I will take a close look at the parts and hopefully they are not chinese parts..

Joe------


If there are Chinese-manufactured parts it could very well be that they are the only currently available parts. At this point in time, there's just not going to be a lot of manufacturing interest in producing parts for vehicles 60 years old.

[Joe P.]

Re: C1 - outer tie rods missing castle nuts

Joe------


If there are Chinese-manufactured parts it could very well be that they are the only currently available parts. At this point in time, there's just not going to be a lot of manufacturing interest in producing parts for vehicles 60 years old.

Joe, it a shame... I have just been notified that the upper outer shaft kit, is not on back order. and the tie rod end clamps bolt w/nuts is experiencing a manufacturing delay.... and not known when it will ship.. maybe christmas will come early..

The worst part, is i promised my wife she would get to park her car in the garage over this winter.. we already had a foot of snow here.. i guess i am resigned to clean her car off and warm it up for her every morning...