C3 Rag Joint Restoration

[Steve L.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Tom,
The reason your hole edges are ragged is because the punch is pulling the screen down into the soft wood. You might try something a lot harder than the wood.

But really you should be using a 2 piece punch. The punch needs to fit tightly into a die to get a clean cut. Something like the following:

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-02612A-...gateway&sr=8-5

or

https://www.amazon.com/SE-JT-SP307-Disc-Cutter-Set/dp/B009NZ4NR4/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_5?keywords=SE+JT-SP307&qid=1552964136&s=gateway&sr=8-5-fkmrnull

I'm not vouching for any of these products.
I do have something similar to the first one. It takes a bit of muscle power to close but with a screen it is probably easier. There is no guide for hole placement but you can see the anvil to eyeball placement.

I've used something similar to the second one. It works well if you get a set that is made well. But it is hard to place the hole exactly where you want it since your material is hidden. There are some with a plastic see thru top guide so it is easier to see for placement.

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello Steve,

Thanks very much for the reply - I wish I had found that small die set type tool before I purchased the hole punches, that would have cut better. But As you mentioned I used a harder material (a scrap of 1/4" thick nylon on top of a steel block) and that cut much cleaner. My garage door gave up on me and as soon as I get that sorted out, I will work on getting the wire cloth disc bonded to the flexible rubber disc. Being the original owner of another '73, would you mind taking a few pictures of the steering coupler? I had my steering box rebuilt by Gary Ramadei (the guy is an Ace! his work is top notch) and I'm wondering if your steering box is painted and what overspray may or may not be on the steering coupling? Also my steering coupling has the shoulder bolts with the extended heads, does yours have the same construction? One last question - does the flexible disc have orange paint on one side to identify it as 7-ply with the wire screen?

Thanks again for your reply


Tom Krause

[Steve L.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Tom,
I don't have access to my car until about May since I'm a snowbird. I looked thru my pictures on my computer yesterday but I don't have a picture of my original rag joint.

But going from memory, my steering box was not painted. I cleaned mine up and gave it a quick spray with clear satin paint. I don't think there was any overspray on the coupling. There wasn't any kind of color anywhere on the coupling.

I remember that there was unusual bolts on my coupling. My memory is being stretched but I think the bolt heads were extended and had shoulders?

I'm probably going to have to take my rag joint out this summer because, I had my drivers door off and the upper hinge is loose. To tighten it, I have to take the dash out which probably means I have to lower the steering column which means I need to loosen or remove the rag joint. I can take detailed pictures at that time but it will be early summer if other life events don't take over.

I'm surprised that your not getting other members responding to this since this joint has had a lot of discussion in the past. I have to commend you on your restoration efforts for this part.

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Steve,

Thanks for the kind words - fellow '73 Coupe owner so I can't be all bad right?
I have included a picture of my latest attempt to make the wire cloth disc. The nylon backup block made a big difference. I would do one thing differently if I was starting over. I would trim the outside diameter after the holes are punched, because punching the holes distorts the shape a bit. However, its probably not enough to matter as the distorted areas will be covered by the other components.
One of the other guys posted some pictures of the steering coupling on his very low mileage '74 and the shoulder bolts are not the type with the extended head. I posted pictures of the parts I took apart and you can see the shape of the bolts is different. I will be interested to see if yours has a similar shape as what I took off from my car. My car was built 11-28-72, was yours built early or late in the model run?
I must admit I did buy a replacement part so I can put my car together if this whole steering coupler thing takes way longer than I think...
I'm currently working on a way to vulcanize the wire cloth to the purchased rag joint disc - that may delay things, but the rest of the components are coming together. Enjoy the warm weather 'till you get back!




Tom Krause

[Steve L.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Tom,
My 73 birthday was Apr 10 1973.
I too bought a replacement Rag joint but when I examined it, I wasn't impressed so I put that one aside and re-installed the original.

Are you using one of the stainless steel wire meshes that are available on ebay?

Any idea on how you are going to vulcanize?

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Steve,

I measured the remains of my original and made a guess as to the wire cloth size they originally used. I bought a few different ones from McMaster-Carr and choose the closest one. They sell 12"x12" pieces that are inexpensive. I used plain steel 28x28 wire cloth with 0.011" wire.

I'm considering how I might make a vulcanizer for tire tube patching work, or I may have to go all hi-tech and make something. Thats why I'm thinking it may take me awhile to get the coupling restored correctly.

[James B.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Tom,

Would you elaborate on the replacement coupler that you weren't impressed with? GM part # or aftermarket?

James

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello James,

I started a while ago with a chain store replacement (not even sure which store now), but that didnt have the 7-ply flexible disc or the wire mesh screen, and there were plain bolts and nuts holding the thing together so I took it back. I did recently buy what looked like a pretty good coupler from Zip Corvette. It will arrive tomorrow and I will post pix and my impressions. This may be my plan'B' so that I can install the steering box that Gary Ramamdei rebuilt (it looks and feels terrific) and drive my car. I'm thinking the vulcanizing deal may take awhile, but maybe not.


Tom Krause

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello James,

I started a while ago with a chain store replacement (not even sure which store now), but that didnt have the 7-ply flexible disc or the wire mesh screen, and there were plain bolts and nuts holding the thing together so I took it back. I did recently buy what looked like a pretty good coupler from Zip Corvette. It will arrive tomorrow and I will post pix and my impressions. This may be my plan'B' so that I can install the steering box that Gary Ramamdei rebuilt (it looks and feels terrific) and drive my car. I'm thinking the vulcanizing deal may take awhile, but maybe not.


Tom Krause

Hello James,

I got the replacement rag joint from Zip-Corvette today and here are my impressions. The pictures compare this item with the original parts from my 1973 (November 28 72 build date) Corvette.
When it was first unwrapped, I was a bit dis-appointed that it had plain bolts and nuts through the rubber disc and holding on the capture strap. I think thats the right name for the stamping that wraps around the rubber from a previous post from Jim Shea, but if not maybe someone could let me know? After removing the bolts I found a steel sleeve around the smaller bolt giving a solid connection through the rubber on one side, but the larger bolt simply squeezes on the rubber and does not tighten up against steel.
The rubber disc itself appears relatively correct in that it is 7 layers, but the two layers on the outside are noticeably thicker than the layers in the middle. The overall thickness is about 0.45" and the outer diameter is about 3 1/4". I dont know if this material will perform as well as an original disc or not - I guess the only way to tell would be for someone whop has an original coupling to swap them out and compare them in actual use.
The cast iron flange that grips the steering box pinion looks like the correct size and shape, the flat (missing spline teeth) is in the same location as on my original. The rivets that hold the rubber to this flange are of a different shape from the originals on the head end, and the opposite (formed) end uses a hollow rivet as opposed to the solid rivets on the original coupling.
The stamped capture strap has a similar size and shape, but there are obvious differences. For a hot second I considered using this piece instead of my original after I re-plate it, but its not that close in shape.
The stamped bowtie shaped part under the heads of the rivets is pretty close in shape to the original, the only real difference I see is on the legs going down to the center. The originals have an undercut shape while the replacement has a radius.
Those are the differences I see. All in all, for $50 it is a functional part, and I would be ok with using it temporarily, but I would be much happier with it if both bolts tightened up correctly to a solid steel surface. Maybe a nut with a nylon locking insert or a castle nut with a cotter pin would be an improvement? To the casual observer it looks fine, but anyone who is even remotely familiar with Corvettes will know its not an original part.

Tom Krause

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello All,

Here is a photo of the replacement steering coupler in place attached to both the steering box and the steering shaft. I did replace the larger 3/8-24 nut with a lock nut with a nylon insert, but its not the best solution. I will keep working on my original coupler and get it installed. One thing to note, if you put your steering box in without the coupler in place there will not be enough room to assemble the coupler between the steering shaft and the steering box input shaft. You can remove two of the three bolts holding the steering box to the frame and tilt the thing forward enough the slip the coupler in place. I did not have the PSCV valve attached to the pitman arm at the time, so the valve may have to be removed as well if you forget the coupler as I did.

[Joe L.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello All,

Here is a photo of the replacement steering coupler in place attached to both the steering box and the steering shaft. I did replace the larger 3/8-24 nut with a lock nut with a nylon insert, but its not the best solution. I will keep working on my original coupler and get it installed. One thing to note, if you put your steering box in without the coupler in place there will not be enough room to assemble the coupler between the steering shaft and the steering box input shaft. You can remove two of the three bolts holding the steering box to the frame and tilt the thing forward enough the slip the coupler in place. I did not have the PSCV valve attached to the pitman arm at the time, so the valve may have to be removed as well if you forget the coupler as I did.

Tom--------


Yes, the coupling needs to be installed with the steering box (or, if the steering column has been removed, before the steering column is installed). That reminds me of something. Way back when, GM used to supply the complete steering gear assembly with an installed coupling (they stopped including the coupling a while before the gear was discontinued, about the same time as the assembly was "outsourced"). A Corvette shop nearby in Cupertino used to sell many OEM GM parts, including the steering gear. However, they used to remove the coupling from the steering gear assembly and sell it separately under its GM part number. I always thought that was a really bogus way to do business. Believe it or not, that vendor is still in business to this day in a different location and is very active on eBay. I'll be kind, though, and not identify them.

[James B.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Tom,

Thank you for your very detailed impressions of the part you had received. Your postings on the rag-joint restoration topic is very informative, helpful and interesting. Much appreciated!

James

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hi James,

Thank you for the kind words - I just hope other Corvette newbies find the post a helpful point to start from when they take on their own projects. The NCRS online community has been a great help to me and I appreciate it.


Tom

[Tom K.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello again everyone,

Life kind of got in the way, so its bee awhile since I had time to work on this. I guess I'm glad I bought that Borgeson kit so I could drive my car during this time!
Anyway, I have the tooling completed, I cut up the rubber and cloth pieces and the cloth pieces will dry now. 8 layers of the rubber and 7 layers of the cloth give a thickness of just over 0.375". I don't know if the glue will change the thickness much, but I doubt it because of the clamp load. There are multiple type of adhesives that I could use and not familiar with what was used originally. My next concern is durability of the finished part.

So here is my question - can someone suggest a way to test them?

Thanks in advance for your ideas!


Tom Krause

[Joe L.]

Re: C3 Rag Joint Restoration

Hello again everyone,

Life kind of got in the way, so its bee awhile since I had time to work on this. I guess I'm glad I bought that Borgeson kit so I could drive my car during this time!
Anyway, I have the tooling completed, I cut up the rubber and cloth pieces and the cloth pieces will dry now. 8 layers of the rubber and 7 layers of the cloth give a thickness of just over 0.375". I don't know if the glue will change the thickness much, but I doubt it because of the clamp load. There are multiple type of adhesives that I could use and not familiar with what was used originally. My next concern is durability of the finished part.

So here is my question - can someone suggest a way to test them?

Thanks in advance for your ideas!


Tom Krause

Tom------

I appreciate all the effort that you've put into this project. However, to say the very least, I'd be VERY UNEASY about using a homemade part that has such serious safety implications.