C3 Battery for judging -

[James G.]

71 LT1 -
Does a reproduction R89S Delco (smooth top with vents, side post with the engergizer eyes on the case) get full points?
I mean minus the vent caps?

There are a lot of points in the battery...

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

71 LT1 -
Does a reproduction R89S Delco (smooth top with vents, side post with the engergizer eyes on the case) get full points?
I mean minus the vent caps?

There are a lot of points in the battery...

No, the reproduction R89S will not get full Originality credit. There are configuration issues with the reproduction battery.

If you have such a battery it is the best you can do, unless you have an original case.

If you are considering a purchase of a reproduction, my recommendation is not to bother. Get a current day Delco side post battery. It is the least expensive battery on on a $/point basis and is the most bang for your buck.

[James G.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

What exactly are the configuration issues...
I can get my hands on original 89S smooth top side post case...
Honestly I haven't had it judged,
My thinking is: my car is unrestored so in order to offset some condition issues which really are not correctable (checked paint, lack of paint on the engine and frame), I was trying to maximize other areas without having to restore anything and still attain 95%.
I am sure there are some little things I am going to miss which are easy, however I have been going over the sheets, most of what I have is original it's the condition where I am questioning deductions.

[Rick A.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

agree with Terry

[James G.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

OK 33 points...
what does a current generation delco side post get?

Reproduction delco 89S?

Does an original case 89S side post get full points?

[Patrick H.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

Does an original case 89S side post get full points?

If you can get a judge to believe it's real, yes.

The number I have seen on the judging field in recent years is 2 ?
I have seen one very old reproduction that also was almost perfectly correct. It was close enough I gave it full credit, and then asked the owner after judging where it came from.

The problem is that most judges have not seen a real one, and assUme that an old-appearing battery must be a repro. You have to know what you're looking for.

[James G.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

I am going to try and have the battery in by Cinci or at latest Greenville.
My vent hoses are original wish the caps were there.
I received my broadcast labels today, thank you.

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

What exactly are the configuration issues...
I can get my hands on original 89S smooth top side post case...
Honestly I haven't had it judged,
My thinking is: my car is unrestored so in order to offset some condition issues which really are not correctable (checked paint, lack of paint on the engine and frame), I was trying to maximize other areas without having to restore anything and still attain 95%.
I am sure there are some little things I am going to miss which are easy, however I have been going over the sheets, most of what I have is original it's the condition where I am questioning deductions.

The reproduction batteries have "ghost" images of the cell separator walls on the top. Originals don't have that "feature"

I thought reproduction caps were available. Get a set. Even if you chose the easy path of a current Delco; having the vent hoses and caps counts for points.

There are threads on here about difficulties in getting delivery of the reproduction batteries, although I have seen none in the last 6 months or so. I am not sure if that means everyone has given up -- knows about the issue and lives with it -- or it has been resolved.

Patrick is right in that few judges have seen an original C3 battery, so they just assUme it is a reproduction. How about us late 1969/early 1970 folks with R79S. Not only is there no reproduction, they are un-obtainium. I am being pressed to put the one I have in service for French Lick, but I am resisting for exactly the reason Patrick mentions.

[Gary B.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

I'll respectfully disagree with Terry. Very respectfully.

Original battery cases do have slight "ghost" depressions of the cell separation walls. They are lighter than the reproductions, but they are there.

I have an original battery in my 72. I gutted it from the bottom and put a battery inside it. During 5 or 6 times of Judging, only one Judge recognized it as an original battery. During Bowtie Judging, it was called as a reproduction. Terry IS right, judges do not see them often enough to recognize them. Judges have also been taught that originals "don't" have depressions for the separator walls, so they automatically deduct when they see them. It's a slow process re-training them.

The 5th Edition TIM&JG and the new 6th Edition being sold in Lakeland... say they DO have ghost depressions. But who reads the manuals?

Gary B

[James G.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

Terry,
You are talking about the short lived battery which had the different sized side post threads, correct?

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

Terry,
You are talking about the short lived battery which had the different sized side post threads, correct?

Yes, but that is not your situation. There is more to it than just the different size threads, but thatbattery is not the subject of this discussion.

[Terry M.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

I'll respectfully disagree with Terry. Very respectfully.

Original battery cases do have slight "ghost" depressions of the cell separation walls. They are lighter than the reproductions, but they are there.

I have an original battery in my 72. I gutted it from the bottom and put a battery inside it. During 5 or 6 times of Judging, only one Judge recognized it as an original battery. During Bowtie Judging, it was called as a reproduction. Terry IS right, judges do not see them often enough to recognize them. Judges have also been taught that originals "don't" have depressions for the separator walls, so they automatically deduct when they see them. It's a slow process re-training them.

The 5th Edition TIM&JG and the new 6th Edition being sold in Lakeland... say they DO have ghost depressions. But who reads the manuals?

Gary B

Gary
Take a close look at the battery I just brought to you. I don't think there are the "ghost" images we are talking about. Back in the late '80s, when we started judging Chrome bumper C3s, it was not uncommon to see over the counter R-89S batteries. No ghost images.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :-)

[Gary B.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

If you look across the top, run you fingers across the smooth surface, you will feel the partitions rise and fall. Hard to get a picture. First picture is a R79s, which should look familiar to you.



Second picture is a R89W battery.

[Patrick H.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

Definitely more subtle than the reproductions - which I knew.
If you have a repro there, post a picture for comparison.

[Gary B.]

Re: C3 Battery for judging -

Attached is an older R79S repo battery. The newer repo's are not this bad, or good, depending on your perspective...


My original R89s is in my car, with the other menagerie of cars at Prairie Lakes. Not home shivering in a cold garage. You can see the partition lines in it, but not as visible as this battery.

Gary B