'65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

[Tom P.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

I cannot possibly see how a brace for a 65 396 (and later L88) can be the same as the brace for 66-67 427 starters.
As already mentioned, the 396 and L88 engines used the small, 12 3/4in diameter, 153 teeth flywheel and the 66-later BB cars used the larger 14in diameter, 168 teeth flywheel.
An engine (REGARDLESS OF SB or BB) with the 153 teeth flywheel has a starter nose with a straight across bolt pattern, which places the starter closer to the side of the block.
An engine (again, REGARDLESS OF SB or BB) with the larger 168 teeth flywheel uses a starter nose with a staggered bolt pattern, which moves the starter further away from the block. THUS, IT WOULD SEEM that the starter brace for a 65 396 (and L88) with the smaller flywheel vs the starter brace for a 66-67 BB would be totally different. I cannot say authoritatively what a 65 396 starter brace looks like for a 65 Corvette, because my ONLY hands on experience with 65 396 applications is with 65 Chevelles and full size cars with a 396---------------and all of those used the larger 168 teeth flywheel (ONLY 65 Corvettes with a 396 and later L88s used the smaller flywheel-----------RIGHT???).

[David L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

As per my vintage 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, and 1969 Chevrolet Parts Catalogs in Gr. 2.077:

Brace # 3864972
65-68 Pass. (396,427)
65-67 Corvette (427) (exc. H.D. 4-SPD.)
68-69 Corvette (427)
66-69 Chevelle,Camaro w/H.D. clutch (8 cyl.)

Brace # 3866768
65-67 Corvette w/Sp. H/Per. (396,427)
67-69 Corvette w/H.D. (427)(exc. T.H.)

As per GM Parts History GM # 3864972 was discontinued sometime between Jan. 1982 and Jan. 1990.

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

As per my vintage 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, and 1969 Chevrolet Parts Catalogs in Gr. 2.077:

Brace # 3864972
65-68 Pass. (396,427)
65-67 Corvette (427) (exc. H.D. 4-SPD.)
68-69 Corvette (427)
66-69 Chevelle,Camaro w/H.D. clutch (8 cyl.)

Brace # 3866768
65-67 Corvette w/Sp. H/Per. (396,427)
67-69 Corvette w/H.D. (427)(exc. T.H.)

As per GM Parts History GM # 3864972 was discontinued sometime between Jan. 1982 and Jan. 1990.

Dave------

Every now and then the P&A catalogs get it wrong and this is one of those cases. The applications listed for the 3864972 are mostly correct except it was not used for 1965 Corvette with 427 since there was no such thing. There is an error in the application for the 3866768. It was NOT used for all 1965-67 with SHP 396, 427. It was used only for 1965 with 396. It was NOT used for 1966-67 with SHP 427.

I have seen other instances where this sort of error creeps into applications for 1966 or 1966-67 big block Corvette. I think that one time the 12-3/4" flywheel was scheduled for use on at least 1966 L-72. However, I don't think it was ever actually used in PRODUCTION although I would not absolutely rule it out for very early 1966. In any event, components related to the still-born 1966 L-72 with 12-3/4" flywheel (like this starter brace) have somehow gotten into the P&A catalogs.

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

I cannot possibly see how a brace for a 65 396 (and later L88) can be the same as the brace for 66-67 427 starters.
As already mentioned, the 396 and L88 engines used the small, 12 3/4in diameter, 153 teeth flywheel and the 66-later BB cars used the larger 14in diameter, 168 teeth flywheel.
An engine (REGARDLESS OF SB or BB) with the 153 teeth flywheel has a starter nose with a straight across bolt pattern, which places the starter closer to the side of the block.
An engine (again, REGARDLESS OF SB or BB) with the larger 168 teeth flywheel uses a starter nose with a staggered bolt pattern, which moves the starter further away from the block. THUS, IT WOULD SEEM that the starter brace for a 65 396 (and L88) with the smaller flywheel vs the starter brace for a 66-67 BB would be totally different. I cannot say authoritatively what a 65 396 starter brace looks like for a 65 Corvette, because my ONLY hands on experience with 65 396 applications is with 65 Chevelles and full size cars with a 396---------------and all of those used the larger 168 teeth flywheel (ONLY 65 Corvettes with a 396 and later L88s used the smaller flywheel-----------RIGHT???).

Tom------

Correct. As far as Corvette big blocks go, the only ones that EVER originally used a 12-3/4" flywheel (and 10.4" clutch) were 1965 with L-78, 1967-69 with L-88, and 1969 with ZL-1. It's remotely possible that early 1972 with L-72 also used this flywheel but I kind of doubt it.

All 1963-68 Corvette small blocks used the 12-3/4" flywheel (but, a different one than the one used on the above-referenced big blocks).

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Good Morning Everyone,

Been away from the computer for a couple of days with an injured leg......WOW!......lots of good info added.

Thanks David for peeling that NOS sticker from your 3965588 brace to show us all that "Omega" sticker. All of your technical data is great and will go into my archives.

So now I know that there is an earlier version of the 3965588 service replacement starter brace. It's got the "omega" stamp and more importantly (to me) it's got the lower straight edge versus the double notched later type brace (just below).



Below is the earlier straight edged service brace 3965588



I plan on using the straight edged earlier service brace 3965588 that I just purchased. Unless I can find an original 3866768 somewhere. I'm posting 2 shots of original braces now that I just got last night. My NCRS good buddy Mark Nagy up in Indiana sent them. The first shot shows an original 3866768 brace on a '66 4 star Bowtie car VIN 19XXX. The second shot is of Mark's beautiful '66 coupe VIN 18XXX. It shows another 3866768 brace. Both cars are 425 HP. Both braces show the straight edge. My next post will venture back to attaching hardware. Mike

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Mike-----

Actually, even though I'm away from my references and can't confirm, I think the ORIGINAL brace you are looking for is a GM #3864972 and not a GM #3866768. I think the GM #3965588 replaced the 3864972 and not the 3866768. If you were to find a GM #3866768 I think you would find that it does not work for your application.

By the way, what is the bellhousing casting number on your car?

This is what I think a GM #3866768 would look like:

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Good Morning Joe,

I got that (original?) 3866768 brace number from prior posts on the TDB. I became aware of the replacement 3965588 brace there too. I'll definitely look into that new part number. Thanks.

When I bought my '66 L-36 30 years ago it had a Lakewood scatter shield installed. I contacted prior owners through a title search and was able to retrieve the car's original 3872444 bellhousing. It had a small crack that I had repaired. About 10 years ago I bought a beautiful #444 from Bill Mock. That one will go on the car.

Take care,
Mike

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

OK Everybody,

I've got a couple of questions for those of you out there that feel your '66 starter and attaching hardware is original to your car. Big block or small block cars. Please give a ball park range of your VIN#. No need for exact VINs. #72XX is mine.

What does the bolt that attaches the starter brace look like? Is it hex head with captive star washer or is it hex head with a flanged lip? And what does the nut that holds the starter stud to the brace look like? Is it a hex with captured star washer or is it a hex with a flanged lip?

This would be great info to collect from all of you and would surely add to the TDB archives! Here's a couple of shots. Mike