'65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Funny thing. I installed a 1967 427 Starter Today. Ignore the unattached wires in this photo. The brace is the reproduction offered by Paragon. Also note: The 396 & L88 Starters got their own version of this part. In fact, take a look at Paragon number 1454 (for L78 & L88) and see if that might be more like the one you are looking for...



The 396 & L88 Starters got their own version of this part. In fact, take a look at Paragon number 1454 (for L78 & L88) and see if that might be more like the one you are looking for...

Tom------


Keep in mind that there had to be two different big block starter braces. 1965 L-78 as well as 1967-69 L-88/ZL-1 used 12-3/4" flywheels while other big blocks used 14" flywheels. The starter nose was different for each size flywheel and, thus, the effective length of the starter brace was different, too.

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

This one's for Joe Lucia and all of you parts wizards out there,

Hello Joe. I've been reading posts by you in the archives this morning about starters and am always enlightened with new knowledge when I read your posts. I was hoping that you could shed some light on two questions I have:

1. I may have found an original 3866768 big block starter brace for my '66 L-36. I'm wondering how long GM supplied the 3866768 brace in service and approximately what year the replacement 3965588 brace began it's production? Did the original '66-'67 3866768 have any logo stamps on them?

2. What is the purpose of the criss-cross marks just below the threads on the 2 starter to block mount bolts? See pic below.

Thanks Joe and everybody's help on this thread. Mike

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

This one's for Joe Lucia and all of you parts wizards out there,

Hello Joe. I've been reading posts by you in the archives this morning about starters and am always enlightened with new knowledge when I read your posts. I was hoping that you could shed some light on two questions I have:

1. I may have found an original 3866768 big block starter brace for my '66 L-36. I'm wondering how long GM supplied the 3866768 brace in service and approximately what year the replacement 3965588 brace began it's production? Did the original '66-'67 3866768 have any logo stamps on them?

2. What is the purpose of the criss-cross marks just below the threads on the 2 starter to block mount bolts? See pic below.

Thanks Joe and everybody's help on this thread. Mike

Mike-----



1) I can't say, for sure, when the starter brace was replaced for SERVICE since I'm in Italy right now and away from my references. However, I think the replacement may have occurred about 1970 or 1971. I'm not positive, though. In any event, it was a LONG time ago;

2) Your second question I can answer easily. The pattern on the section of the starter bolt you picture is called "knurling". The knurling is done so that the starter bolt fits relatively tightly in the starter nose through which it passes. This is to help ensure that the starter is exactly positioned. This is critical for the starter bolts which also have a different thread length to unthreaded shank ALWAYS use the proper and specific starter bolts to mount a starter. NEVER use standard bolts.

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Thanks Joe,

The starter brace I'm looking at that may be an original #3866768 is from around that era. Think I'll take a chance on it. I'll post some shots if I get it.

My 1107365 starter appears to be my original. Case date jives with the car. I replaced the starter's brushes shortly after I bought my '66 L-36 in 1988. They were very worn. Down to the attaching screws. Indicative of how many miles were truly on the car? The odometer was broken when I bought her. The 2 mounting bolts appear to be originals(?). They have the knurling but are a bit worn on the bolt heads. Something to add to my shopping list at Carlisle this August.

Joe, can I ask one more question of you? I read in one of your posts on small block starter braces/shields that you are well versed in naming the various companies that made the different head marks of our original bolts from the '60s. Do you have a good book reference that names the original factories? I can name some, but not all. I'm always adding to my bolt collection. Thanks, Mike

Post Script.........Enjoy Italia! One of my favorite spots on earth.

[David L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Mike,

GM # 3866768 is listed for $3.20 in my GM Price Schedule, Dec. 1981, but not in my March 1991 GM Price Schedule.
GM # 3866768 is NOT listed in my 1965-73, 1973-75, or 1976-81 Chevrolet and GM Parts History manuals so it was still available as of Dec. 31, 1981. However it is listed in my 1982-1990 GM Parts History manual so it was DISCONTINUED sometime between Jan. 1, 1982 to Jan. 31, 1990.
The part was available for quite a long time.

Dave

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Thanks Dave. Well, the one I'm looking at appears like it may be an original 3866768. There are subtle differences from the service replacement 3965588 but it's real close in shape. I'm wondering what the braces for both the '65 396 and '67 L88 look like? I won't rack my brain over that one. I've read the flywheels were different sizes than my car's so there'd be a noticeable difference in design?

If I get this possible 3866768 I'll post some shots of it here. If I'm wrong and it's not........well that won't be the first time Mike

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Thanks Joe,

The starter brace I'm looking at that may be an original #3866768 is from around that era. Think I'll take a chance on it. I'll post some shots if I get it.

My 1107365 starter appears to be my original. Case date jives with the car. I replaced the starter's brushes shortly after I bought my '66 L-36 in 1988. They were very worn. Down to the attaching screws. Indicative of how many miles were truly on the car? The odometer was broken when I bought her. The 2 mounting bolts appear to be originals(?). They have the knurling but are a bit worn on the bolt heads. Something to add to my shopping list at Carlisle this August.

Joe, can I ask one more question of you? I read in one of your posts on small block starter braces/shields that you are well versed in naming the various companies that made the different head marks of our original bolts from the '60s. Do you have a good book reference that names the original factories? I can name some, but not all. I'm always adding to my bolt collection. Thanks, Mike

Post Script.........Enjoy Italia! One of my favorite spots on earth.

Mike-----


Somewhere I have a reference to a lot of the ID markings for a lot of the fastener manufacturers. Of course, I don't have it with me in Italy (I meant to bring all my references with me but, darn it, I forgot). I do recall that the last time I looked for it I had a hard time and didn't find it. But, I've got it somewhere.

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Hello Joe,

Well, you enjoy your vacation in Italia. I used to fly in and out of Milano, Roma, and Napoli quite a bit till I retired to our flight training center here in Miami. I recall enjoying a delicious plate of spaghetti Bolognese looking across the Gulf of Naples towards Mount Vesuvius.

It was in a quaint bistro at your namesake....Santa Lucia. Great memories.

When you get home maybe you'll run across that bolt reference book someday. Mike

[Mike B.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

OK Guys,

I just bought this brace that I think is an original #3866768. Unless one of you guys bursts my bubble. So, be gentle.

The seller claims that it came from a '70 Chevelle 454. It comes with the correct "L" head mark bolt. Can't make it out in the pic. Hope it's a real bolt and not a repro. It does have the proper cut ends to the star washer. Shipping to my home in Maryland where the wife and cars are. I'll have her take some closeups of it when it arrives. She's good at that. I'll post more here when it arrives.

Notice the dipped paint drip marks and the "Omega" logo. Compare it to the shot on the 1st post to this thread that I put a file shot of what appears to be an original brace installed on this '66 big block. Sure looks similar. Especially the cut edge near the red arrow that I added for clarification. Here's the shots. I'll absorb the cost if it's not a real one and chalk it up to research. What do you guys think? Pretty happy so far.
Mike

[Terry M.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Hello Joe,

Well, you enjoy your vacation in Italia. I used to fly in and out of Milano, Roma, and Napoli quite a bit till I retired to our flight training center here in Miami. I recall enjoying a delicious plate of spaghetti Bolognese looking across the Gulf of Naples towards Mount Vesuvius.

It was in a quaint bistro at your namesake....Santa Lucia. Great memories.

When you get home maybe you'll run across that bolt reference book someday. Mike

I have one too. John Amgwert prepared the one I have and gave it to the then Team Leaders (about 1988 to 1999 or so). I am not 100% sure that is the one Joe has, but suspect it is the same. I know where my copy is, but it is inaccessible. Or nearly so.

I am curious Mike. What is the point of knowing what SBC or D or P stand for?

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

I have one too. John Amgwert prepared the one I have and gave it to the then Team Leaders (about 1988 to 1999 or so). I am not 100% sure that is the one Joe has, but suspect it is the same. I know where my copy is, but it is inaccessible. Or nearly so.

I am curious Mike. What is the point of knowing what SBC or D or P stand for?

Terry------


Speaking for myself only, it's one of those things "I just like to know". The actual manufacturing source of any Corvette component is something that's always been of interest to me. For most folks, the only thing of interest is where the cars were built and where the engines were built. For me, it goes a LOT deeper than that.

[Terry M.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Terry------


Speaking for myself only, it's one of those things "I just like to know". The actual manufacturing source of any Corvette component is something that's always been of interest to me. For most folks, the only thing of interest is where the cars were built and where the engines were built. For me, it goes a LOT deeper than that.

Just a guess on my part, but surely most of the manufacturing sources for fasteners are no longer in business so beyond idle curiosity I don't see what is to be gained. Now the codes for rubber hoses are another matter. Many of those manufacturers are still around, but I doubt they could be convinced to produce a product from 50 years ago. Materials are so different for so many reasons, but it might be fun to try if one could use a truck load, or several truck loads, of rubber hoses.

BTW: A stylized P = Phoel Manufacturing Cicero Illinois. They haven't been in business at that location for over 30 years. Last time I was by there (perhaps 5 years ago) the buildings (right next to Victor Gasket) were still there. The job I had in a former lifetime took me into such interesting places, but I didn't appreciate how the world would change manufacturing. Sic transit gloria mundi

[David L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

OK Guys,

I just bought this brace that I think is an original #3866768. Unless one of you guys bursts my bubble. So, be gentle.

The seller claims that it came from a '70 Chevelle 454. It comes with the correct "L" head mark bolt. Can't make it out in the pic. Hope it's a real bolt and not a repro. It does have the proper cut ends to the star washer. Shipping to my home in Maryland where the wife and cars are. I'll have her take some closeups of it when it arrives. She's good at that. I'll post more here when it arrives.

Notice the dipped paint drip marks and the "Omega" logo. Compare it to the shot on the 1st post to this thread that I put a file shot of what appears to be an original brace installed on this '66 big block. Sure looks similar. Especially the cut edge near the red arrow that I added for clarification. Here's the shots. I'll absorb the cost if it's not a real one and chalk it up to research. What do you guys think? Pretty happy so far.
Mike

Mike,

I hate to burst your bubble but the NOS 3965588 brace that I bought maybe 10 years ago looks exactly like the one in your photos......same shape along with the "Omega" stamping.

Dave

[David L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Attached is a photo of my NOS 3965566 brace with the GM part number label peeled away so that you can see the "omega" stamping which measures approximately 0.35" X 0.30". My 1972 Corvette Parts Catalog (Sept. 1971) lists the 3965566 brace for 70-72 Corvette (454) models. My 1970 Chevrolet Parts Catalog (Jan. 1970) lists GM # 3965588 for 70 Nova, Chevelle, Camaro (396,400 w/4BC) and 70 Pass w/T.H. 400 (454) along with a "*" which means "Parts listed with a asterisk (*) following the model year are exclusive new 1970 parts. All other parts listed are 1970 carry-overs." My 1970 Chevrolet Parts Catalog (Oct. 1970) lists the 3965588 brace for 70 Nova, Chevelle, Camaro (396,400 w/4BC), 70 ALL (454). My 1970 Chevelle AIM lists the 3965588 brace for the L34 and states that the L78 and LS5 use the same starter motor & controls.

What you have is a 3965588 brace first used in 1970.
I'm sorry that I could not be gentle......facts are facts.

Dave

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 thru '67 Big Block Starter Brace #3866768

Just a guess on my part, but surely most of the manufacturing sources for fasteners are no longer in business so beyond idle curiosity I don't see what is to be gained. Now the codes for rubber hoses are another matter. Many of those manufacturers are still around, but I doubt they could be convinced to produce a product from 50 years ago. Materials are so different for so many reasons, but it might be fun to try if one could use a truck load, or several truck loads, of rubber hoses.

BTW: A stylized P = Phoel Manufacturing Cicero Illinois. They haven't been in business at that location for over 30 years. Last time I was by there (perhaps 5 years ago) the buildings (right next to Victor Gasket) were still there. The job I had in a former lifetime took me into such interesting places, but I didn't appreciate how the world would change manufacturing. Sic transit gloria mundi

Terry------

There's no doubt that virtually all of the fastener manufacturers of old are no longer in business. However, GM's Flint engine plant, Flint Corvette plant, and St. Louis Corvette plant are no longer in business, either, and interest still remains in those. In fact, none of these plants even physically exist anymore.

Rockford, IL used to be a center of fastener manufacture. However, I doubt if many fasteners are made in Rockford anymore. Most fasteners these days, including likely those used on new Corvettes, are manufactured in China.