Judging Reference Manual question

[Gary S.]

Last weekend at our Pittsburgh regional I participated in judging a Rochester carb equipped C3 car. The carb was apparently a service replacement and was dated 10+ years after the car was manufactured. The other judge (just as green as I was) and I questioned the Originality portion of the cab using the "CDCIF" initially gave it a full deduct. We wound up amending that to 90% so that condition points could be assigned. My question is how are the Regional and National judgings done on something that meets all of the criteria on for CDCIF, Configuration, Date, Completeness, Installation, and Finish, except for date? Except for the fact that this was a 3000+ mile car this was an extraordinary engine compartment with only a oddly dated carb and EGR valve. Both received full Originality and Condition deduct which we wound up changing.

So, how does this work or how should I view originality ?

Gary

[Harry S.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

Gary, firstly according to CDCIF you can't end up with a 90% deduction. It's a multiple of 20%. As each part of CDCIF is worth 20%.

I'll go with your assessment, if only the date was incorrect but everything else was exatly as it should be then it would be a 20% deduction.

Also, don't amend the deduction to give condition, the car is judged as presented and if it really is a 100% deduction, have the Team Leader sign off and move along.

[Jim S.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

Gary, firstly according to CDCIF you can't end up with a 90% deduction. It's a multiple of 20%. As each part of CDCIF is worth 20%.

I'll go with your assessment, if only the date was incorrect but everything else was exatly as it should be then it would be a 20% deduction.

Also, don't amend the deduction to give condition, the car is judged as presented and if it really is a 100% deduction, have the Team Leader sign off and move along.

Harry, I agree with your post, but there are three items on that line> Carburetor, heat insulator & fasteners. One could reduce the 20% deduction due to that. How much is the question

[Gary S.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

Gents,
we were neophyte judges struggling to conform to the rule of law and to the benefit of the owner. It was beautiful engine compartment only flawed by the date of the two items, the carb and the EGR valve. We were trying to learn from the experience without detracting from the judging experience.

Gary

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

You have to decide if the three items on the line are all treated equally or if some are major and some minor items.

IMO the carburetor is the major item and the heat insulator and fasteners are the minor items. My assessment would be 80% to the Carb and 10% to each of the other items, but others may have a different take on the division and percentages. If you were judging a 1968-72 the originality part of that line is 38 points. I would round off to 30 points for the carburetor and 4 points for the heat insulator and 4 points for the fasteners. Again that is just my opinion. The give and take on those points is why there are two judges assigned to each area.

If the only thing wrong with the carburetor was the date 20% of 30 points is a 6 point deduction. I would look carefully because a carburetor manufactured 10+ years after the appropriate date I would expect to have some configuration issues.

[Gary S.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

Good comments. Thank you. We were at the end of a mini-meet and wanted to finish this plus I haven't judge in 15+ years so we were stuck. I just received the Judging Reference Manual Saturday so I am going through it now. The thing that threw us for a loop was the less than 4000 miles on this car and it had replacement EGR and carb. It appeared bone stock and original until we started looking at part numbers and dates. You have helped me immensely.

Gary Schisler

[Harmon C.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

Were you judging the dates by the correct calendar?

[Gary S.]

Re: Judging Reference Manual question

yes and the Team Leader confirmed it.