The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

[Edward M.]

OK, I read the statement in the latest issue of The Restorer about the board's decision to make aftermarket A/C a standard deduction.

The deduction is 200 points on a C1 and 300 points on a C2 or C3.

Both of those amounts are significant enough that the car in question could not do better than Second Flight without some assistance for mileage points, fire extinguisher, etc.

Even then, the car would have to be close to perfect to get better than Second Flight if it has aftermarket A/C (Like Vintage Air) on it.

I am not disagreeing with, or complaining about the decision. I applaud the board / team for coming up with a standard deduction for this issue. Previous judging of cars with add on A/C have been pretty inconsistent. This decision should resolve that inconsistency.

I am just wondering if the significance of this was taken into account when the point values were assigned for the deductions.

In other words, was it the intention to keep cars with aftermarket A/C from being able to achieve no better than Second Flight?

And I do realize, and acknowledge, that Second Flight is still a pretty good award to have.

[Harry S.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Ed, there is one thing the car will never become and that is a Duntov car. I'm fine with the standard deduction for the added A/C. I would assume that if you detect a car with added A/C that is all factory components the same deduction would result. It is a great deal of work and you do have to pull some of the car apart to add the factory components but it is detectable, well almost all of the time.

[Tim G.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

I've known some really nice cars with add on AC. NCRS judging may help guide an owner to make their car correct in other ways and enjoy the benefit of AC on a hot day. I once considered buying a very correct car with add on AC, I knew I could not have it judged. Now if I had that car, I wouldn't hesitate to bring it for judging.

[Michael J.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

I agree with Harry and Tim, and I used to have an aftermarket A/C car ('66), took it for judging, got a second flight at chapter and regional, and was happy as a clam. I came within 40 points of TF, and if I had driven it, I would have made that, so this is not a big deal. Good to see this deduction become more standardized with these new guidelines, as Dave Brigham says: "The judging teams should meet with the team lead prior to judging a car with aftermarket A/C . The results of your meeting should be deduction totals approximately equal to the amounts cited above (200 for C1, 300 for C2)"

[Edward M.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Yeah, I am not concerned about the amount of points; I am just pleased to see a standard deduction for consistency.

I assume that once the standard deduction is made in this case, no further deductions are made for things like "incorrect compressor", "wrong pulley configuration", etc.

[Harry S.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Ed, the way I read the article you get deducted for the items that are there that are incorrect like the compressor as well as get deductions for the items that were changed to add the after market A/C. It does not appear to be a flat 300 points on one line item. You need to get to 300 points on many line items.

[Jimmy G.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

We recently did a judging school in the Carolinas Chapter on this very subject and concluded that about the max deduct would be 170 or so points. This arbitrary decision by the National Judging chairman is wrong. This will discourage people who want to drive their cars, it will discourage Founders Award Cars. I totally disagree with this ruling and have made my thoughts known to the team leaders. We have a judging system in place --- let it work and settle how many points need to be deducted, not some arbitrary decision by Brigham and supported by the Team Leaders.

[Edward M.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Ed, the way I read the article you get deducted for the items that are there that are incorrect like the compressor as well as get deductions for the items that were changed to add the after market A/C. It does not appear to be a flat 300 points on one line item. You need to get to 300 points on many line items.

Harry; That isn't what I understood.

The statement in The Restorer was strictly about aftermarket A/C added to a car, not factory A/C added to a car.

The addition of Vintage Air or Classic Auto Air or whatever was an automatic 300 point deduction, and then the car was judged as if it did not have the aftermarket A/C system installed.

Therefore, modification made to accommodate the aftermarket A/C would not count as additional penalties.

The 300 points assessment is made for a Vintage Air System, but no additional point assessment is made for incorrect pulley configuration to accommodate the A/C system. NO additional assessment for holes in the firewall for the A/C lines.

The 300 point deduction covers the whole shebang.

Correct or not?

[Edward M.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

We recently did a judging school in the Carolinas Chapter on this very subject and concluded that about the max deduct would be 170 or so points. This arbitrary decision by the National Judging chairman is wrong. This will discourage people who want to drive their cars, it will discourage Founders Award Cars. I totally disagree with this ruling and have made my thoughts known to the team leaders. We have a judging system in place --- let it work and settle how many points need to be deducted, not some arbitrary decision by Brigham and supported by the Team Leaders.

Jimmy;

I can definitely see the value is this approach.

The car owner can minimize the "hit" by using as many factory correct parts as possible, and modifying the car as little as possible.

Cars with add on A/C are still potentially valuable guides and references for other areas.

I would want to do everything possible to encourage an owner with a nice survivor car that has add on aftermarket A/C to bring it to NCRS so we can learn from it.

[Harry S.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Ed, we have confusion that needs to be clarified.

[John D.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

The last couple of years I know of a few FI car owners who added AC to their midyear fuel car. They have the alternator on the drivers side. And other stuff. No room for the correct monster air cleaner.
Can't imagine having a car judged like that. Strictly a nice driver.

[Jimmy G.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

vintage air factory air added is a fraud issue

[Edward M.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Agreed.

Can someone clarify this situation.

[Edward M.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

Yep.......

[Gary H.]

Re: The Restorer statement about standard deductions for afterarket A/C

The Vintage Chevrolet Club of America, VCCA, is a national club that also judges on authenticity. The VCCA uses a 1000 point judging system, they have a standard deduction of 100 points for aftermarket air, 10%. Doing the math, using NCRS's 4500 point format, a 200-300 point deduction for aftermarket air does seem reasonable.