Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

[Daniel B.]

I just bought a '64 roadster. I am concerned that the Knockoff rims may not be factory installed. The hubs and rims each have 6 small half circles that can be lined up. Three of the wheels had some sort of pin stuck in one of the holes formed by these half circles. I read in an earlier post that the factory rims did not have pins just the after market rims do.

Do I have factory rims or after market?
Thanks
Dan

[Michael J.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

A picture of the backside of the rim would help, typically, the original Kelsey Hayes knockoffs had a part number stamp in them, like these:

[Michael J.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

Here is what an original hub looks like:



Oh, and congratulations on getting such a great car, I love '64 roadsters, enjoy it!

[Don H.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

If the adaptors, and wheels are cut for "safety" pins, they are aftermarket. Note no cut outs for pins in the threaded adaptor above.

[Edward J.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

I would stay with the aftermarket retainers and spinners with the pins as they are just a little added security.

[Daniel B.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

My issue with the rims is the seller represented them as a factory installed option. The factory records for this car were destroyed in the St Louis fire. The seller presented an order sheet that had the factory order code with the proper option price for the rims. Now they prove not to be original to the car. This order sheet also called for the 300 HP motor option. Now I have to be suspect if it is truly the 300 HP and if it is was it originally a 300 HP.

I bought the car with the intent of trying to achieve some NCRS status by identifying the cars short comings and improve them over time. New to this process I don't know how things like this affect the process, ie, are after market rims an issue or not an issue for NCRS?

You have to excuse me a little. I get annul retentive when I do a restoration. I just completed a 1950 MG TD and have three times the value of the car invested. I have no intentions of selling the car so I had no issue with the expense. I don't plan on selling the Vet but I wanted to do a value added project this time.

[Michael J.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

It is really not an issue with NCRS judging if the car came with P48 (aluminum knockoff wheels) or not, the car can be judged with steel wheels or original KOs. If the wheels you currently have are not originals, you can find some, steel or P48s (pricy). Rims that are not originals just have deductions of points in judging, not a disaster.

You could easily check the 300 HP issue with the engine stamp pad (passenger side front of the block, just below the head) for engine suffix, date , and VIN derivative stamp. What document do you have that shows the options? A window sticker can be validated, an order sheet would have some details too.

[Joe L.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

My issue with the rims is the seller represented them as a factory installed option. The factory records for this car were destroyed in the St Louis fire. The seller presented an order sheet that had the factory order code with the proper option price for the rims. Now they prove not to be original to the car. This order sheet also called for the 300 HP motor option. Now I have to be suspect if it is truly the 300 HP and if it is was it originally a 300 HP.

I bought the car with the intent of trying to achieve some NCRS status by identifying the cars short comings and improve them over time. New to this process I don't know how things like this affect the process, ie, are after market rims an issue or not an issue for NCRS?

You have to excuse me a little. I get annul retentive when I do a restoration. I just completed a 1950 MG TD and have three times the value of the car invested. I have no intentions of selling the car so I had no issue with the expense. I don't plan on selling the Vet but I wanted to do a value added project this time.

Daniel------


Assuming the "order sheet" indicating the car was originally equipped with P48 wheels is authentic, it could easily be that the car was originally equipped with P48 wheels. At some later time the original wheels could have been removed (e.g. to be sold separately for Big $$$$) and reproduction wheels subsequently installed on the car (e.g. price gotten for original wheels - price of reproduction wheels = profit).

[Loren L.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

I, for one would like more details on the "St Louis fire" and the VIN. After that, I suspect that I would like the seller's address..........

[Gene M.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

From a NCRS judging point of contention the added options as well as deleted options is a full deduct. So be careful of what one’s car is presented with as opposed to what it was originally built with. The optional wheel is one option that seems to be presented in greater numbers than what was ever produced. Seems the judging field percentages (%) are excessively higher than actual percentages (%) original option to car over all build.

Wheel option is difficult to determine when GM original wheels are used. The reproduction wheel said to be used as replacements does throw up a flag.

[Don H.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

Ext judges should consult with Int judges as to the presence of KO wheel instructions on jack board, and in the glove box.
But, I don't know how many do. Probably very few.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

Ext judges should consult with Int judges as to the presence of KO wheel instructions on jack board, and in the glove box.
But, I don't know how many do. Probably very few.

Why would you deduct for the wheels and not just only for the missing KO wheel instructions. If I have 5 reproduction wheels one should lose point on originality & for missing instructions.

[Don H.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

In my opinion, and this is my opinion only, you are trying to establish the originality of an RPO item. An added option is a full deduct. You look for all possible evidence to confirm that the car originally came with each RPO item. In the case of the wheels there is the hammer, instructions, sticker on jack board and the longer tub bolts. You weigh the evidence and form a conclusion. If evidence says the RPO was added, you take full deduct on the option.
Your opinion may be different.

The judges don't need to ask the owner anything about options. They judge the car as presented.

[Michael J.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

I have never had a judge ask for an original document, like window sticker, jacking sticker, etc. to verify a car came with KO wheels from St. Louis. They judged the wheels original or not, and the things they can see, original or not, for consistency, but they have no idea if the car actually came from St. Louis with the wheels. Only a documented and verified window sticker or build sheet/order form would do that.

[Stewart L.]

Re: Factory vs After Market Knockoff Rims

Another method of P48 documentation is that it is written in crayon on the rear crossmember