Mid engine Corvette

[Michael J.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Frankly, the only reason I am not biting to get the new C7 ZR1 to replace my C6 ZR1 is because I think a mid-engine AWD variant is coming before long.

[Donald O.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

again I'll ask,
What makes a car to be designated as mid engine?

[Michael J.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

I can only provide my opinion, a mid engine car should have the engine behind the driver, but still mostly forward of the rear wheels. My 911 Porsche is a rear engine car, the Ferrari Testarosa is a mid engine car.

[Donald O.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

I can only provide my opinion, a mid engine car should have the engine behind the driver, but still mostly forward of the rear wheels. My 911 Porsche is a rear engine car, the Ferrari Testarosa is a mid engine car.

any others?

[Duke W.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Agree with Michael's opinion, but it's really a fact. The definition of mid engine is engine behind the cockpit and ahead of the rear axle line. Rear engine is engine behind the rear axle line.

The advantage of mid engine is a lower polar moment of inertia because the major masses are close to the cg, which means the car can generate a yaw rate faster than a front or rear engine car, and that makes the car more responsive to steering inputs for better handling. Think of a bar bell with a weights on the ends. Pick it up with one hand and twist it back and forth. Now move the weights toward the center and run the same test. Big difference!

Mid engine cars are tough to get right. Response and stability are diametrically opposed, so they can be tricky to set up, but if done right are very rewarding and fun to drive. They also don't package very efficiently, so either have little or no luggage space or are too big if they contain reasonable luggage space.

I love driving my '91 MR2 though it took some work early on to keep it from oversteering like a '65 911. It's like your brain is directly connected to the front wheels, and, like a jet fighter, you don't move the stick (steering wheel)... just apply pressure. The transverse inline four allows for a short wheelbase (94.5") and not excessive length while providing a snug, but comfortable cockpit if you're no more than about six feet tall, and I've always been amazed on how much stuff I can pack into the "footlocker" behind the engine.

Duke

[Walter F.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

From what I am reading, this( IMO) bad idea about a mid-engine Corvette ( release dates 2019) is bound to have major problems. I can remember GM at one time doing something like this with the Pontiac name plate. And that did not turn out so well. Personally I believe this will kill the Corvette we have come to know and love. This is far bigger then funny taillights, stationary head lights, and leaking T-Tops. Some are saying it will improve handling by weight balance. But isn't the C7 50/50 weight in distribution ? I am beginning to think this whole idea is more about giving memory to Zora then producing a sports car that is still affordable and reliable to drive.

[Duke W.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

From what I am reading, this( IMO) bad idea about a mid-engine Corvette ( release dates 2019) is bound to have major problems. I can remember GM at one time doing something like this with the Pontiac name plate. And that did not turn out so well. Personally I believe this will kill the Corvette we have come to know and love. This is far bigger then funny taillights, stationary head lights, and leaking T-Tops. Some are saying it will improve handling by weight balance. But isn't the C7 50/50 weight in distribution ? I am beginning to think this whole idea is more about giving memory to Zora then producing a sports car that is still affordable and reliable to drive.

It's all about marketing. My understanding is that the mid-engine car will be built along with the current car, but will be at a higher price point. GM is taking a considerable risk, but apparently they believe there is enough market for an "exotic" $150K plus mid engine "Corvette" or whatever they call it to bring it to production.

I think it was Ed Cole (or maybe Pete Estes) that I once saw quoted saying something like: "Sport cars, yeah I love 'em. I can sell a million of 'em... only problem is I gotta sell 'em all the first day".

The original '84 Fiero was a hodgepodge of parts - Chevette front suspension, Citation rear suspension, and the anemic Iron Duke pushrod four. It gradually improved over the next few years, and by '88 it had a unique suspension and a torquey V-6. It was a pretty good car. A buddy had one, and I helped him with the engine to achieve a 131 MPH two-way average at Bonneville about ten years ago, so it is probably the world's fastest Fiero, but still short of the 150 or so that was held by a Ferrari in the three-liter sports class. Of course, once they finally got the car right in '88, it disappeared in '89.

In 1993 I and some other MR2 owners were invited by Toyota to a private showing of their new "sports car", which turned out to be the new Supra with the three-liter turbo inline six. The executives told us they were going after Corvette. I told them that Corvette owners would never be interested in a three liter six no matter how much boost and horsepower it could make. Corvette's were all about big inch torquey V-8s. The group also collectively told these Toyota execs who were mostly refugees from Ford that it wasn't a sport car. Slack-jawed they asked us what we thought it was, and we collectively said "grand touring car". They thought the MR2 was a "secretary's car". We told them to put a V-6 in it, and make it the modern incarnation of a Dino. They didn't listen. The MR2 was gone from the US market two years later. The Supra hung around for awhile, but was a sales disaster.

I think the Corvette Group at GM has enough knowledge of sports car marketing that they consider the risk viable, and I think they're right. Look at the Ford GT... $350K and production is sold out. In fact you have to basically apply and "qualtify" to buy one. Hopefully GM won't be so snooty.

Duke

[Michael J.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Well said Duke, and the new Supra is coming soon, from BMW and Toyota, to correct those earlier mistakes.........and I am sure GM is watching that.....http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-what-we-know/

[Ronald L.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Chevy killed the Fiero, it was starting to be competitive with the C4 sluggish performance.

Duke you're likely off by 100k,the GT is a 450k car.

[Steve B.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

And by the time the GT is fully equipped, the price exceeds 500K.

[Walter F.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Please don't call it a Corvette GM. And please distance it from the Corvette. Learn from your mistakes. Cadillac XLR ? How about the old name they were going to use on the Camaro. Panther ? Or just plain Zora GT.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Would that be a mid engine electric??? Just kidding, but in my years, I noticed that the way to put the screws to buyers is to raise the price out of reach for most, so they can say, "hey look at me, I have arrived" and then throw the keys to valet parking! The wallet and driving skills are far apart for what they paid for INMO. where can they be driven without risking jail?

Dom

[Michael J.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

where can they be driven without risking jail?

Dom

Not many places, I have to go to the Texas Mile to really air them out..........

[Domenic T.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Michael,
That sounds really nice. Tried it once with my 67 on a 2 lane in the middle of nowhere, nothing but miles of road and saw a spot in my rear view mirror.
I slowed down trying not to use the brake lights, it was the Highway Patrol. He didn't write me up! never knew where he came from? He just shook his head. Told him I wasn't trying to out run him, just didn't know he was back there.
The white lines get fuzzy going that fast. I got my kicks daily on the pavement doing over 150, but the white lines were wider and farther apart so it seemed slower. Thank God for that or I might have been history by now.
Back in the day we all probably raced our shadows and would see what top end was on every car we owned, even dads! I stopped when it was automatically jail over a certain speed. ALSO GOT OLDER!

Dom

[Michael J.]

Re: Mid engine Corvette

Thanks Dom, it was fun, but a bit nerve wracking as the speed came up and the front end started to lift. It's an old B-52 bomber base runway, so lots of room and pretty safe. We have probably all done silly things in our wild youth with our cars, and old age does give you the perspective about how wild they were! I also would never even speed these days on any highway, too much downside, but every time I go on a rally or road tour, well, I am in the minority with that.......