C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

[Donald H.]

How tight is to tight? I just purchased a set of Spicer (Made in US) half shaft U-joints, picture attached. The listing at Rock Auto says these are 3.625" end-to-end cap. I understand this is the correct dimension for corvette half shaft U-joint per another recent thread.

The problem is when I installed the U-joint on the half shaft and spindle flange, the U-joints are VERY tight. I compressed one of the U-joint with a clamp and measure and get 3.71". When I installed the U-joint in the Half shaft and flange I really had to crank on the installation tool to get a clip in, and I am using the thinnest clips. The Spicer U-joint comes with three different clip thicknesses (0.034, 0.036, and 0.038), but I have a set of Moog U-joints (these do not fit) that came with 0.033 clips, so I am using these.

The U-joint is very tight once installed.

I know of at lease one other member with similar problem. Anyone else used these recently and having issues?

Thanks,
Don

[Donald H.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Another thing I just noticed is that when I pressed the cap in on the opposite side enough to install a clip, the clip on the other end begins to distort. See red arrow in the attached picture. That there isn't any free plan in the U-joint end to end.

Don

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Donald-----


The problems you've encountered here are exactly why I take u-joint installations to a competent driveline shop. U-joint installation SEEMS easy (until you try to do it). This is one of those jobs where experience is everything and guys that do it day in and day out have the experience.

By the way, the u-joints you've selected are the best and strongest for this application although their configuration differs substantially from the originals. These u-joints are far stronger than the originals.

[Gary R.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Don
I have used these joints many times. The clips to use are the copper colored ones.

Some thoughts

1- are they the black rings or white? the black ones are brittle and the old style. I doubt you would get them but you never know.

2- I put little film of grease on the needles to hold them in place. Are you sure that one didn't pop out on the bottom of the cap?

3- Clean the bores and grooves and test fit the clips in the grooves.

4- Use WD40 on the caps.

5- I made a plate to hold the flange and test them for rock. If the flange rocks it is bent and these joints are not going to fit, no doubt about it.

6- Place the cross in the yoke or flange,slide on the ring, and tap one cap in place, holding the cross into the cap so the rollers don't fall out. Slide the other cap on and tap that in, I use a small ball peen. Make sure the rings snap in place and don't get bound up. At this point you should have the caps flush with the yoke or flange end. I use sockets to press the cap in, install clip, flip it over and press the other cap in and clip it. They might feel snug but should move, no binding. place the assembled joint in between (2) 2x4' and wack it with a ball peen, a good shot. flip it over and wack it again. The clips should stay seated and the joint should loosen up. Do this for all the joints. Then I stake the clips in place and witness mark them, Tape the loose cap ends.

I find the joints will be pretty loose if done right and the flange is not bent.

Here is the link to the thread I wrote 10 years ago

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76752

[Donald H.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Don
I have used these joints many times. The clips to use are the copper colored ones. Gary, the copper ones are the thinnest that came with the Spicer U-joints. I tried them then ended up using clips from the Moog U-joints. They are thinner than the copper Spicer clips.

Some thoughts

1- are they the black rings or white? the black ones are brittle and the old style. I doubt you would get them but you never know. They are white ring

2- I put little film of grease on the needles to hold them in place. Are you sure that one didn't pop out on the bottom of the cap? The needles are all in place. I've tried two different U-joints on different half shaft and flange.

3- Clean the bores and grooves and test fit the clips in the grooves.

4- Use WD40 on the caps.

5- I made a plate to hold the flange and test them for rock. If the flange rocks it is bent and these joints are not going to fit, no doubt about it. I also have a plate made from 1/2" flat steel stock, Picture attached. I do not believe the flanges are bent, they do not rock and fit flat to the plate. I used this plate to both remove the old and install the new U-joints.

6- Place the cross in the yoke or flange,slide on the ring, and tap one cap in place, holding the cross into the cap so the rollers don't fall out. Slide the other cap on and tap that in, I use a small ball peen. Make sure the rings snap in place and don't get bound up. At this point you should have the caps flush with the yoke or flange end. I use sockets to press the cap in, install clip, flip it over and press the other cap in and clip it. They might feel snug but should move, no binding. place the assembled joint in between (2) 2x4' and wack it with a ball peen, a good shot. flip it over and wack it again. The clips should stay seated and the joint should loosen up. Do this for all the joints. Then I stake the clips in place and witness mark them, Tape the loose cap ends. Mine do move, but are what I would consider very stiff. Maybe they are OK. What also bothers me is that when I press the opposite side in enough to install a clip, the opposed side clip starts to distort from the pressure.

I find the joints will be pretty loose if done right and the flange is not bent.



Here is the link to the thread I wrote 10 years ago


http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=76752

One other thing. The Spicers have a black plastic washer inside the cap at the bottom. It looks to be an end spacer for the end of the U-joint inside the cap. I assume this should stay in the U-joint cap when installed and is not just for shipping?

[Gary R.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Yes the black "spacer" in the cap needs to be in place. Sounds like you are doing it correctly, did you wack them in between the 2x4's? That really does seat them. Some distortion on the center of the clip can be expected but I have always used the copper clips without an issue.

[Donald H.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Gary,

I have not tried the 2x4 trick. I'm having a hard time visualizing this. Do you just sit a piece of 2x4 on your work bench, then one yoke/U-joint end on that 2x4 then with another 2x4 on the other end of the yoke/U-joint and smack it with the hammer?

I did take a socket that just fits inside the yoke and seated against the clip. Then smacked it. That did seem to seat the clip better.

I'm not using my 20 ton press to install. I'm using the tool pictured below. I borrowed it from a friend and it works very good and gives me more feel for what I'm doing versus the press.

By the way, I also have a set of Moog (made in Mexico) U-joint that Rock Auto sells to fit the C2 half shafts. I just installed one of them in the other end of the half shaft and it is also very tight.

All of the U-joints move, i.e. no binding, but it just seems to take more force to get them to move than I would consider reasonable. But maybe it just me!!

Don

[Edward J.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Don, is it possible that one of the needle bearings feel when installing the caps if this happens the clips will never install, another thing is its possible that the yokes may have got bent on the removal of the old caps.

[Donald H.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

I guess anything is possible, but I’ve done two different half shafts, which is four different ends and two flanges, and have the same problem with all of them.

I don’t think it’s just me. There are two members of my chapter who are having similar problems with both the Spicer and Moog universal joints.u

[Dick W.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

To add to Gary's information, I always coat the inside of the yoke bores with Neverseize. It makes installation a little easier and the 2 X 4 trick a little easier

[Gary R.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

Don,
I lay down (2) 2x4's and rest the entire 1/2 shaft on them. This keeps the shaft level. Looking at a flanged side you have (4) caps to wack, so I take a small 2x4 and place it on top the cap I will hit. I use a heavy ball peen and lay into it a couple of time. rotate to the next 3 the same way, then do the other end but be sure to tape the caps on.

I thought about the needle laying into the cap but if that was the case you wouldn't get the clip anywhere close to the groove - unless you press them and break the cap. I purposely did that with an old cap to see what would break and it did crack, the needle is hardened and had no sign of damage.

They may be snug and will loosen up but this can be subjective to each persons version of snug. When I finish the shaft typically will not stand straight up but fall to one side since the joints are centered and installed.

When I see clip issues it almost always comes down to the flange being bent.

[Donald H.]

[Donald H.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

OK, Gary I'm a believer. I did the 2x4 trick and its amazing how the U-joints loosened up. I think they are fine now.

Thanks very much for this tip!

Don

[Page C.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

I recently had a similar experience with the new AC/Delco 45U0123, GM# 89029305. These are also the same a Moog. All now made in the same plant in Mexico. Called Federal Mogul tech line and was told that these "U" joints are designed to run at 3.625. This is also the largest inside clip to inside clip yoke dimension I could get any of the half shafts I had. Some were as small as 3.623. These "U" joints came with 4 clips that are .058 in thickness. The smallest dimension I could get on all 4 of these "U" joints was 3.630 tighten in a vice and were so tight you could NOT move them. After taking a lot of measurements it appeared that the trunnions were .005 to .006 thousands wider than the old GM trunnions. I took about .002 to .0025 off of all 4 ends of the trunnions and they now fit into the yokes using the .058 wide clips that came with the "U" joints. It's possible to have accomplished getting them installed using some narrower clips but these are not available from Federal Mogul. On another note, there was a good article in The Restorer Magazine (Summer 2008) by Dennis Dalton on how to making some tools (which I did) to check the yokes alignment and flanges for straightness.

[Gary R.]

Re: C2 Half Shaft U-Joint revisited

OK, Gary I'm a believer. I did the 2x4 trick and its amazing how the U-joints loosened up. I think they are fine now.

Thanks very much for this tip!

Don

Good job Don. You are becoming an ace student- Diff-box-arms- shafts, not sure I can offer anymore advice you have tapped me out! LOL