Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

[Vito M.]

New here. Restored a '63 conv a while ago. Have restored other vehicles.

My question: How far does one take a restoration? I'm about to purchase a 2 owner '60 (fulie). It is apart and in need of putting back together. However, I can put it together and make a trailer queen or I can put it together and drive it about from time to time. To me, in my mind, these are seperate types of restorations.

Concerns #1: Be afraid to drive something brought back to the N'th degree. More apt to restore and see folks bid on it at Mecum.

Concens #2: Don't worry to much about it, do a proper restoration on a three owner vehicle but not to the point I have to worry about driving it a few hours on a weekend, parking it at a favorite resteraunt, bird droppings, stone chips, freshly tar'd roads, etc..

Would love to hear some opinions. Ultimately, I know it is my decision.

[Paul H.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

I'm all about driving them and enjoying them for their intended purpose. I like them to look reasonably correct, but adding things like radial tires just make sense if you're going to drive it. I have great respect for either method of restoration. For them to run properly they need to be exercised, just like we do. I drive mine. I'm careful about where I park them and I enjoy maintaining them. Welcome aboard and good luck with your restoration either way you decide to go.

[Michael J.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

I agree that driving the car is the most fun. And unfortunately most restorations that focus on assembly line correctness and cosmetics are not good mechanical, driving restorations. I have had restored cars that were perfect in most all ways for judging, but I would be afraid to drive, not for getting it dirty, wear, etc., but because they would not make a 100 mile trip without a mechanical malfunction. Most restorers do not get the mechanicals rights, and that is #1 for me. I am currently sorting out the mechanicals on a couple of cars that were restored by big name people and have sat in collections since then, there are tons of mechanical things that need attention. It would have been good if they had been restored with driving in mind as the primary objective.

[Joe R.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Here is a question for you!

What if you do a mechanical restoration, drive the car and then later decide you want to restore the car to Top Flight?

If that is the situation you start over and AGAIN spend big bucks restoring the car to correct status!

You are wasting a lot of money if that ever happens cause your doing everything over again to make it perfect!

Do it once and do it right!

Drive the crap out of it and don't worry!

It's just an old car anyway!

JR

[Leif A.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Here is a question for you!

What if you do a mechanical restoration, drive the car and then later decide you want to restore the car to Top Flight?

If that is the situation you start over and AGAIN spend big bucks restoring the car to correct status!

You are wasting a lot of money if that ever happens cause your doing everything over again to make it perfect!

Do it once and do it right!

Drive the crap out of it and don't worry!

It's just an old car anyway!

JR

I tend to agree with Joe. My '67 went thru a four year restoration, completed in 2012, with the intention of having a very nice, driveable car. I had it regionally flight judged in 2014 and received a second flight. I continued to drive her and fix a few minor details and had her judged again in 2016 where she attained a regional Top Flight. I have driven her a little over 20k miles since the restoration (never in inclement weather) without incident. She's going to be judged again in a few weeks at the Lone Star Regional. Long winded, but my point is this...fix it right the first time so that it is not only esthetically pleasing but mechanically reliable. These cars are enjoyed the most (IMHO) when they're looking good, running good and being driven on a very regular basis. Of course, your opinion may vary.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Some thoughts, if I may -

It (only) takes 97% to get a Duntov. Not 98 or 99. And, I've seen some driven cars and not-so-perfect cars get Duntov awards. So, it's possible to do both it you want.

What I often see is that no matter what the score, after pouring lots of $ into a car owners don't want to drive them for fear of that "first scratch," no matter what the original intent. New Z06 cars start at $80 and go up, and people generally aren't afraid of driving them. However, put the same amount in an older car and suddenly...

I would suggest that you're best off determining your goals on Day 1, as JR infers. Whether Second Flight driver, Duntov driver, or something in between it will cost you less in the long run to do it once.

Having said that, given that it's a fuelie I don't think I would skimp.

[Frank D.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Some thoughts, if I may -

It (only) takes 97% to get a Duntov. Not 98 or 99. And, I've seen some driven cars and not-so-perfect cars get Duntov awards. So, it's possible to do both it you want.

What I often see is that no matter what the score, after pouring lots of $ into a car owners don't want to drive them for fear of that "first scratch," no matter what the original intent. New Z06 cars start at $80 and go up, and people generally aren't afraid of driving them. However, put the same amount in an older car and suddenly...

I would suggest that you're best off determining your goals on Day 1, as JR infers. Whether Second Flight driver, Duntov driver, or something in between it will cost you less in the long run to do it once.

Having said that, given that it's a fuelie I don't think I would skimp.

My much driven 63 took a 93% regional Second Flight with about 3 weeks of prep prior to judging.
I worry more about other moronic drivers hitting it than wear and tear...

[Michael J.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

True, getting it wrecked is the worst thing.

[Rick A.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Agree with JR - restored my 1963 Z06 and drove the CRAP out of it! Enjoyed every mile smiling my arse off! Duntov winning car and now in a collection in Sarasota - many folks on this forum know the car

[James W.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Vito,

I agree with Joe. I restored my '64 convertible back in 1982 when I was 18 to the then NCRS standards, there were some things not correct and it earned a second flight at the 1984 NCRS National Convention. I started college that fall, kept the car stored a worked on it to change the items that were not correct in flight judging. Drove the car sparingly up to the early 1990's when I got married, wife had twins, all Corvette stuff on hold for a while but still drove the car occasionally. In 2004 tweaked the car to the current TIJG at the time, drove it 200 miles to local chapter meet earned a top flight without the 2.0 mileage points added to my final raw score which brought the score to a 100.2. More time passed, kept driving the car sparingly and keep it current with the latest TIJG. In the spring of 2005 I drove it from Omaha to Bowling Green to attempt a Founders Award judging, car passed with no deductions. July 2005, drove it from Omaha with my father on the NCRS Road Tour to Park City, earned the Founders Award. More time passed, in 2010 the car was re-judged and earned a top flight. In 2012 I fixed all the deductions that I could based on the current TIJG and drove the car from Omaha to a regional in Rochester, MN. and had it flight judged, earned a top flight without any need for mileage points which were approximately 400 miles or 4.0 points added to my flight judging raw score. In 2014, again made corrections based on the most current TIJG, My son and I drove the car in NCRS Road Tour from Omaha to Kansas City and had the car flight judged at the National Convention were it again earned a top flight without the need for the 2.5 mileage points added to my final raw score. The car consistently scores in the high 96 point range with 30 plus year old restored paint, carpet, interior, mechanical and chassis. If maintained properly it is easy to score well in flight judging, even when you drive them.

Through this entire evolution, the keys were that I drove the car to all the events and had the opportunity take advantage of the benefits of mileage points in flight judging scoring. I had a great time doing this, met some wonderful people who are now my friends. The driving trip to Park City was a bitter sweet one in that little did either of us know, my father had a rare cancer that took his life less that 2 months after we returned from Park City. I am so glad that we made that trip together. He started in the C2 Corvette hobby back in the early 1970's and joined the NCRS in 1974. I had been by his side all that time learning about Corvettes. Now my son who is 14 is learning about them too. He's been on three NCRS Road Tours with me and still comments on the fun we had and the great people he has met.

Sorry to get off topic but it is all about driving them and enjoying them. Restore or don't, but drive it!!!


Best Regards,

James West

[Keith W.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Vito,

I agree with Joe. I restored my '64 convertible back in 1982 when I was 18 to the then NCRS standards, there were some things not correct and it earned a second flight at the 1984 NCRS National Convention. I started college that fall, kept the car stored a worked on it to change the items that were not correct in flight judging. Drove the car sparingly up to the early 1990's when I got married, wife had twins, all Corvette stuff on hold for a while but still drove the car occasionally. In 2004 tweaked the car to the current TIJG at the time, drove it 200 miles to local chapter meet earned a top flight without the 2.0 mileage points added to my final raw score which brought the score to a 100.2. More time passed, kept driving the car sparingly and keep it current with the latest TIJG. In the spring of 2005 I drove it from Omaha to Bowling Green to attempt a Founders Award judging, car passed with no deductions. July 2005 Drove it from Omaha with my father on the NCRS Road Tour to Park City, earned the Founders Award. More time passed, in 2010 the car was re-judged and earned a top flight. In 2012 I fixed all the deductions that I could based on the current TIJG and drove the car from to Rochester, MN. and had it flight judged, earned a top flight without an need for mileage points which were approximately 400 miles or 4.0 points added to my flight judging raw score. In 2014, again made corrections based on the most current TIJG, drover the car in NCRS Road Tour from Omaha to Kansas City and had the car flight judged at the National Convention were it again earned a top flight without the need for the 2.5 mileage points added to my final raw score.

Through this entire evolution, the keys were that I drove the car to all the events and the benefits of mileage points in flight judging scoring. I had a great time doing this, met some wonderful people who are now my friends. The driving trip to Park City was a bitter sweet one in that little did either of us know, my father had a rare cancer that took his life less that 2 months after we returned from Park City. I am so glad that we made that trip together. He started in the C2 Corvette hobby back in the early 1970's and joined the NCRS in 1974. I had been by his side all that time learning about Corvettes. Now my son who is 15 is learning about them too.

Sorry to get off topic but it is all about driving them and enjoying them. Restore or don't, but drive it!!!


Best Regards,

James West

Agree 100% with James , summers past us quickly - 5 years becomes 10 in a blink of an eye - restore it and drive it, best of both worlds - have fun
Keith

[Joe R.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

James,

Thanks for that reply. Brings back so many memories of driving my 63 split window.

1976 from Memphis to Orlando for the NCCC National Convention.
Vacation in Colorado.
Driving my Dad to 140 MPH. He loved to go fast!

Bought from the original owner.
Sebring Silver
300hp
PS
PW
4 speed Muncie

JR

Vito,

I agree with Joe. I restored my '64 convertible back in 1982 when I was 18 to the then NCRS standards, there were some things not correct and it earned a second flight at the 1984 NCRS National Convention. I started college that fall, kept the car stored a worked on it to change the items that were not correct in flight judging. Drove the car sparingly up to the early 1990's when I got married, wife had twins, all Corvette stuff on hold for a while but still drove the car occasionally. In 2004 tweaked the car to the current TIJG at the time, drove it 200 miles to local chapter meet earned a top flight without the 2.0 mileage points added to my final raw score which brought the score to a 100.2. More time passed, kept driving the car sparingly and keep it current with the latest TIJG. In the spring of 2005 I drove it from Omaha to Bowling Green to attempt a Founders Award judging, car passed with no deductions. July 2005 Drove it from Omaha with my father on the NCRS Road Tour to Park City, earned the Founders Award. More time passed, in 2010 the car was re-judged and earned a top flight. In 2012 I fixed all the deductions that I could based on the current TIJG and drove the car from to Rochester, MN. and had it flight judged, earned a top flight without an need for mileage points which were approximately 400 miles or 4.0 points added to my flight judging raw score. In 2014, again made corrections based on the most current TIJG, drover the car in NCRS Road Tour from Omaha to Kansas City and had the car flight judged at the National Convention were it again earned a top flight without the need for the 2.5 mileage points added to my final raw score.

Through this entire evolution, the keys were that I drove the car to all the events and take advantage of the benefits of mileage points in flight judging scoring. I had a great time doing this, met some wonderful people who are now my friends. The driving trip to Park City was a bitter sweet one in that little did either of us know, my father had a rare cancer that took his life less that 2 months after we returned from Park City. I am so glad that we made that trip together. He started in the C2 Corvette hobby back in the early 1970's and joined the NCRS in 1974. I had been by his side all that time learning about Corvettes. Now my son who is 15 is learning about them too.

Sorry to get off topic but it is all about driving them and enjoying them. Restore or don't, but drive it!!!


Best Regards,

James West

[Vito M.]

Re: Not exactly technical more general thoughts on ownership and restoration

Thanks for the replies so far, exactly what I was needing to hear!