Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

[Michael J.]

I had an exciting day yesterday, driving back from a local cars and coffee in my newest '64 fuelie (about a 50 mile roundtrip). I have put about 140 miles on this car since I got it in May, and have never had any issues until yesterday. About 5 miles from home, cruising at 70 and listening to the Beach Boys, the car all of a sudden quit running, like the key was switched off. It would not start, no funny movements in the volt meter, so I coasted up an off ramp and to a safe place on the frontage road. Immediately people stopped to try and help, but mostly to see the car. Temp gauge sat at the normal 180 position, but no juice for anything beyond the clock and radio, and the alternator was boiling hot to the touch, voltage regulator was cool.

Popped the hood and looked over everything, all normal, except I saw liquid bubbling out of the battery caps, and steam coming out of them, and since this is a brand new Restoration Battery, it should be sealed with no acid around under those caps, so knew it was toast, ruptured internally. AAA came quickly to take me home. I let it cool down and then started looking closer. Lots of acid spilled over under the battery in the tray and pad underneath. Spent the next few hours pulling the battery out (negative post cracked out of the case when I pulled it) and cleaning up the mess, letting everything dry, and put a spare battery I had in it.

Tried starting, it would start but not run, so checked the ballast resistor, 12V one end, 0V on other with ignition in run, on position, so pulled the ballast resistor and replaced it with an old Mopar '64 NOS 1.2 ohm one, all I had in my parts bin. It gives me 7V on one end, 12V on the other. It started right up, I drove it into my garage for a place easier to work on it.

Checking the charging system, I am getting about 15.8 V on warm idle charge to the battery, that sounds a little high.

So, I know I need a new ballast resistor, I have a new battery for now, but I am wondering what else may need to be replaced. If the battery was overcharged on the alternator, maybe that made it fail, and that may have toasted the ballast resistor. So maybe it was the VR? Anyway, I welcome any opinions from the experts. Thanks.

[Edward J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Mike, yes, voltage reg. must be stuck on, and sounds like the Battery could be toast. check the standing voltage on battery should be at about 12.6 volts.

[Mark E.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Maybe you suffered multiple failures: an open ballast and a bad battery.

Question is what caused the battery failure? Internal problem? Over charging? I would install a known good battery then perform a charging system check.

How reliable is a "Restoration Battery"? I learned years ago from an Interstate Battery engineer that a major indicator battery early life failure is freshness. In other words, how old is the battery when sold to you? Ever since, I check the battery date code before accepting it. You might consider a reliable, replacement battery with a fresh date for driving, and save the cosmetic battery for NCRS shows.

BTW, alternators and generators feel quite hot during normal operation.

[Michael J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Now that I have put in an old '67 Corvette VR I had in my parts bin to replace the one on it, the charging voltage went down to a more usual 13.5 to 14 or so volts, so quite possibly, the issue was the VR not adjusting the charging voltage as it should, which probably fried the battery, it now looks like it was a battery explosion that was mostly contained by the reproduction case. I am still curious as to why the BR failed at the same time, but I guess when a battery explodes, funny things happen to things.

[Chuck G.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Michael, "back in the day" one used to be able to take an alternator (or generator) along with the voltage regulator to an auto parts store, where they would run the two together and check things out.

We have an old time auto electric shop close to where I live in Florida. They still do that. I doubt that any of the common parts stores can do that anymore. Maybe you can find an old time shop near you in New Mexico.

My guess is that the VR is stuck.

[Michael J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Thanks Chuck, I do have a place that can do this not too far away, so I will try that too. So far looks like the battery, VR, and BR will need to be replaced, the alternator seems fine, so I am hoping it is OK. Here is a picture of the new Restoration Battery after the internal explosion (the negative post broke out when it went), the acid has filled the inside of the case and you can see the remains of the new battery that was put inside. Pretty nasty when this happens.

[Michael J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

To summarize, this battery failure took out the original ballast resistor, voltage regulator (possibly), and also took out my original to the car flasher, and all four light bulbs, two front and two rear, as I had the parking lights on when it happened, and signaled to get to the off ramp.

[Chuck G.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

To summarize, this battery failure took out the original ballast resistor, voltage regulator (possibly), and also took out my original to the car flasher, and all four light bulbs, two front and two rear, as I had the parking lights on when it happened, and signaled to get to the off ramp.

Wow. I wonder how many volts and amps went through that wiring to cause all of that damage.

I'd check that alternator too, just to be safe.

[Dan D.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Michael,

Your VR was the cause of your problem. The relay contacts welded closed and caused the alternator to put out full charge. That is why your alternator was so hot (it may or may not be damaged). 15.8V is way too much. Actually, the battery is initially what held the voltage to 15.8. When the battery blew up and went open circuit, the voltage would have gone way higher than that, and that is what blew the ballast resistor, the flasher, and the light bulbs. The car quit running when the ballast resistor failed. Check your wiring from the alternator to make sure it is not burned. Also check your radio as you said you were listening to it when the car quit.

Battery voltage, with the engine off and everything working properly, will set at about 12.6 volts. When the car is started the voltage should slowly rise to about 14.4V and then level off. But when the VR stuck and fed the battery with a high voltage all that extra energy was dissipated in the battery as heat, and it eventually blew up.

Rich Mozzetta has published threads on how to protect this from happening by adding a fuse in the alternator feed.

-Dan-

[Michael J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Thanks Dan, that all makes sense, and my old VR is coming apart to check all that too, to verify. The alternator and all wiring and diodes checks out fine, and luckily, I was not listening to the radio, but to my MP3 player, loaded with Beach Boys, 4 Seasons, and Elvis' "Viva Las Vegas" soundtrack (to prepare for next year's National......). The charging system now, with my old but functioning '67 VR, is well within proper specs, so I think I am OK. But that battery is an ugly mess, and maybe I was lucky it was enclosed in that reproduction case, otherwise it would have been a much bigger mess to clean up. I will have to read what Richard wrote, I have never had this happen in any car, old or new, over my 53+ years of driving, but I guess there is always a first time. Cheers!

[Dan D.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Glad your on the road to recovery Mike. The coil probably took a beating too, before the ballast died. Sounds like it survived okay though.

I like your choice of music, and sounds like the MP3 survived too.

The repro battery case certainly provided an extra layer of protection.

-Dan-

[Michael J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Thanks, I wondered about the coil, I will carry a spare coil too when I go traveling. Needless to say, I checked all my old Corvettes to see how the charging system is working, but I guess this may have happened on my way home suddenly, so no checks or preventative maintenance is possible I guess. The MP3 player has it's own power source and headphones, so luckily was completely independent, I guess I am stuck in the '60s...... I am taking another of my '64s to a county fair car show, about 250 miles roundtrip, this coming weekend, and now I know other parts I need to carry around, just in case!

[Richard M.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Michael, Wow! Fortunately it wasn't worse. Is this your Tanker?

I don't want to cause fright, but I would take a very close look at all of the wiring. In particular these items....

- Bulkhead Connector Feed circuit, that #12G Red wire which is the source for the entire electrical system. This also should include the Main Harness feed wire to the IGN circuit and Fuse Panel Twinlock pins. I would think that a corroded high-resistance connection there may fool the VR that battery sense voltage is low and continue to be triggered to set the alternator to a high charge condition.

- Voltage Regulator ground circuit and Horn Relay +12V Buss Bar Source and Load wiring. Any loose or compromised connection here could cause problems.

- Overall Engine Harness internal integrity. I have seen hidden internal wire insulation melted beneath the harness wrap. It looks fine on the outside but once opened up it's obvious. See pics below. This was from a 1966 Engine Harness that had been in use for many years before I replaced it. As you can see the Main Feed #12G wire and the Black Battery Gauge sense wire were melted. This was totally hidden within the harness wrap tape.

As far as future fuse protection, adding several Fusible Links in the Engine Harness(similar to the 1967 circuits) would help protect things. A easy add-on would be at least one link at the starter solenoid Feed wire. This would protect from a catastrophic short circuit fault. Also a 15A Fuse under the dash coming off of the Ignition switch to the IGN circuit.

Rich

[Michael J.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Yes Richard, it was one of my tankers, the lowest mile one with lots of original to the car parts. In fact the car has had 320 miles put on it from 1976 to when I received it in June, and I have already put over 140 miles on it, I do want to drive them. All those 53 year old parts probably can be forgiven, just hope there are not lots more about to fail......

Thanks for all these tips and great pictures. I did inspect all the wiring near the components, but I will now look further into the circuits and add some fuses. I also have three others I will examine, better to be safe than sorry broken down along the highway.

Thanks again and nice to visit with you again at the National, will you be in Frisco?

[Richard M.]

Re: Multiple electrical problems, sorting out cause, opinions welcome

Michael, Good idea to check all you can now before other issues come up.

Great to meet in Texas last month. Not sure about Frisco yet. I'm scheduled to do a Tech session at the SACC National Convention here in Florida in October and need to check dates.

Rich