66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

[Robert W.]

I am installing my five black plastic tie straps to my hood cable and wire hardness on my 66 firewall.
The JM states that an illustration of where these five tie straps are placed is on page A9 of the AIM.
I have two copies of the AIM and both are missing page A9.
Can someone post a good photo of page A9 if they have a 66 AIM or tell me where I can find a good accurate photo of where each of these five straps are placed.
I'm pretty sure I have the two outboard straps placed correctly. The center one over the washer pump has me a little stumped.
Does the center one tie only the wire harness and hood cable together or does it also tie the wiper hose and additional wire to the water temp gauge?
Thanks for reading and hopefully your help.
All the best!
Bob Wingate

[Donald H.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Here's a copy of UPC12 - Sheet A9.

By the way, the judging guide says there are six of the T pull-ties, but then says there are two on the driver side and three on the passenger side. The 6th is located near the driver side of the windshield washer pump. I put five on my 66 need to ad the 6th I guess.

[Robert W.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Hey Don thanks for the quick reply. Yes; I noticed the JM stated six straps then immediately contradicted itself by stating there were two on the drivers side and three on the passenger side. The AIM page A9 you sent is difficult to tell where five are more or less six. Maybe our NCRS 66 Team Leader Bill Calorico will chime in. He knows so much about 66's its crazy. He is extremely knowledgable and a great guy. I guess we need to find out if the judges are looking for five or six ties. Again I appreciate your quick response. I hope to see you at the National in San Antonio.
All the best!
Bob

[Richard M.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Interesting the '66 AIM page Don posted only shows 4 (item# 21)?. That #29 item is tape, not a tie. Unless my eyes are tricking me I only see 4.

IIRC, the page which shows the w/shield washer bottle hose routing may have another picture. Also if K66 TI optioned, check that AIM page too as there may be more info. If BU Lamps, the harness goes through one of the uppers also, at least on a '67, maybe '66 too. Check that AIM page too.

That infamous tie below the wiper motor without much AIM detail....

On '67's and probably also on '66's, it ties the main harness from the dash for the wiper motor, etc, and one or more of the washer hoses together. Pics from a '67 configuration below, which may be close or even identical to the '66 cars. This car was judged in this configuration and had no deducts for those "infamous" black ties. It's a BB car but most of the black tie configurations should be same for SB cars.

Rich

[Robert W.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Richard,
Yes; I only see four ties (#21) too. Probably during judging they count them and just estimate where they should be. If the JM states five/six that's probably what they are looking for even though there should be four. There is always room for improvement. I've suggested that with all the nice color photos the writers of the JM have in their files to place them somewhere on the NCRS site to go along with the JM for the particular year and model of the car. Newbies like myself need all the photos we can get sometimes to help in the restoration process. I know they want color pics in the JM but it would be nice to have a hundreds of color photos on the site to refer to.
BTW: your car looks super clean in your photos and restored nicely.
Thanks for your help.
All the best!
Bob

[Donald H.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Rich, I counted 5 ties in the pictures you provided. 2 on the passenger side and 3 on the driver side. That is how I have my 66. Pictures attached. One confusing thing is that the tie on the washer pump hose only captures the in hose and wiring (which seems to agree with AIM page UPC1-D4). On my car I have all the hoses captured with the wiring (which seems to agree with AIM page UPC12-A9)

By the way, the 67 AIM shows the same configuration as the 66 AIM, just in the 67 AIM it is pages UPC12-A8 instead of A9 in the 66 AIM.

[Robert W.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Don,
I think you got it. This helps me mucho! I appreciate your follow-up and I hope this post helps other members in the future.
I made it to Top Flight at the Texas Regional Last Fall in Frisco. This was my first go around. Making my car better the past several months and plan to attend the San Antonio National in July.
My 66 Roadster is Trophy Blue with dark blue interior. L79; 4 speed, power steering & power brakes.
All the best!
Thanks again.
Bob

[Donald H.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

I have now studied the AIM pages more times than I would like. I now agree with the Judging Guide. There are two pull-ties on the passenger side and a total of four on the driver side.

I have added one to the driver side and have the four pictured in the attached.

AIM page UPC 12 sheet A9 has four ties shown. ALL four of these tie various areas of the wiring harness either to the hood lock cable (3) and one ties the instrument panel wiring to the wiper hoses (all the hoses grouped at the pump area and tied to the wiring). There are the two on the passenger side (not shown in my picture) and the other ties I have numbered 1 and 2 in my picture.

AIM page UPC 1ASM sheet D4 had an additional two ties on the driver side. BOTH of these ties hold ONLY the washer hose to the hood lock cable. These are numbers 3 and 4 in my picture.

So this makes a total of six ties and agrees with the judging guide.

Don

[Robert W.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Don,
You have doing some research big time. Good job! It shouldn't have to be this difficult.
I'll look it over again. Probably as long as you have 5 or 6 ties the judges should be happy since the JM contradicts itself.
Generally they would give this argument to the car owner.
Nice photos like yours organized online for the JM for the particular car year and model would be extremely helpful.
All the best!
Bob

[Daniel J.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

The 6th "TY" is shown in the AIM under windshield washer hose section (I am at work, so do not have sheet number).

I have gotten deductions for both;
#1 only having 5 ties
#2 having 6 ties, but the 6th one was not in correct location. (I did not know about looking in the washer section of the AIM)

[Robert W.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Daniel,
Thanks for your input. I'll check on the AIM windshield washer hose section. Don Harris's photo above shows this well it looks like.
Maybe I won't loose points over this in San Antonio.
Do you have original ties or new ones? I just found out how to tell the difference a few months ago.
All the best!
Bob

[Donald H.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

The 6th "TY" is shown in the AIM under windshield washer hose section (I am at work, so do not have sheet number).

I have gotten deductions for both;
#1 only having 5 ties
#2 having 6 ties, but the 6th one was not in correct location. (I did not know about looking in the washer section of the AIM)

The page I referenced in my post #8 above, UPC 1 ASM sheet D4 is the washer hose AIM page and the ties (actually the AIM refers to them as straps) I have numbered 3 and 4 are the ones from that page.

[Robert W.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Don,
Keep the knowledge and the "Top Flights" coming!
I appreciate your help!
All the best!
Bob

[Richard M.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

Rich, I counted 5 ties in the pictures you provided. 2 on the passenger side and 3 on the driver side. That is how I have my 66. Pictures attached. One confusing thing is that the tie on the washer pump hose only captures the in hose and wiring (which seems to agree with AIM page UPC1-D4). On my car I have all the hoses captured with the wiring (which seems to agree with AIM page UPC12-A9)

By the way, the 67 AIM shows the same configuration as the 66 AIM, just in the 67 AIM it is pages UPC12-A8 instead of A9 in the 66 AIM.

Don, It's hard to see, but there are 6 ties total. The photos are not that detailed and black ties on a black backround are tricky to see. In that 1st photo you can barely see it. It's one of the 2 cowl center ties, on the driver side to the right of the wiper motor(as viewed from front of car).

I agree that the tie holding the harness wiring(wiper motor, etc) should likely capture ALL of the washer hoses as it appears in the AIM. However the AIM drawing is quite unclear as to exactly which hoses are captured with the wiring and I think the judges keep that into consideration. BTW, IMO this tie is probably the most important tie of all. It retains the wiring and keeps it as far rearward as possible, away from being caught up in the accelerator lever, throttle rod end, its clevis and cotter pin. If it should ever catch the wiring it could hold the throttle in a wide open position. Not good.

Yes thanks for the 66 vs 67 AIM info as I don't have a '66 AIM, but suspected the configurations were similar for both.

One other note, coincidentally I've been helping a friend on a '67 build after body drop. Just yesterday I tidied up the "black tie" firewall area. It's a L79 SB car with standard ignition( Non- TI). For the 2 Pink wires from the harness heading to coil+......I ran them through the black tie as shown in the AIM and just like your photo. I tried to do a small loop and add the black "friction" tape(Item #29) as shown in the AIM. However the length of the Pink wire pair seems too short to do this without causing a potentially dangerous chafing action on the lower edge of the Distributor Ignition Shield.

I noticed in your photos you do not have the black tape on your Pink wiring either. Did you encounter this same issue?

Rich

[Donald H.]

Re: 66 black tie strap to hood cable & hardness on firewall question

I do not have the pink wires taped. I actually forgot about the tape. I'll have to see if I have enough slack to add it. Thanks for pointing it out. I suspect an experienced judge would have caught it