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Headlight Switches

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  • Dan D.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • November 5, 2008
    • 1323

    #16
    Re: Headlight Switches

    I think they meant to say 58 - 63. The photo in their web site shows the 58 - 63 version. And they will NOT work for 57. 56 - 57 are different and are not interchangeable.

    -Dan-

    Comment

    • Bob W.
      Very Frequent User
      • December 1, 1977
      • 802

      #17
      Re: Headlight Switches

      Dan you maybe right as i don't own a 56-57 to check

      Bob

      Comment

      • Richard M.
        Super Moderator
        • August 31, 1988
        • 11323

        #18
        Re: Headlight Switches

        Dan is correctomundo.

        Comment

        • Richard M.
          Super Moderator
          • August 31, 1988
          • 11323

          #19
          Re: Headlight Switches

          Originally posted by Dan Dillingham (49672)
          Yes, I would love to know how much current 4 headlight cars draw. I need to know this for the headlight switch evaluation I am doing.

          But there should be enough head room in the headlight switch circuit breaker to handle this. These systems generally worked fine when new, and that was 1958 and up - it is the replacement switches that have the problem. However, the original design may not have the capability to handle Halogen lights, which were not invented when these cars were designed and built.

          Also coming into play here, is that the power budget for the car was approaching the limit of the old DC generators which were flat out at 25 amps. Recognizing this problem, GM somehow managed to get a another 5 amps out of those poor old generators in 1962. This of course was fixed in 1963 with the advent of the alternator.

          -Dan-
          Dan, I have 25+ year old Sylvania halogens in my '59. I have a original HL switch in the car which I've owned for 31 years and still works fine. It may be original to the car, unsure. I think I probably have as many night miles on my car as day miles and never a issue with my headlights.

          If I can, I'll do a sequence of tests with a ammeter in series with the Bat+ feed to the switch to get some low beam/high beam numbers for you.

          I believe the stock Corvette V8 generator was 30 Amps then got bumped up to 35 for the 59+ fuelies and all '62's.

          If they corrected those blinky switches with the marginal CB, I wonder exactly what they did and if they followed spec or just wag'd it and actually made it over-rated.

          Rich

          Comment

          • Dan D.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • November 5, 2008
            • 1323

            #20
            Re: Headlight Switches

            Rich, that would be great if you could do this. Do I assume that all 4 of your headlights are Halogen?

            Not sure about the generator current now that you mention it. You are right about the current - my bad. But I only thought the higher current one didn't come out until 62. Did now know it was available for earlier FIs cars. It may be due to the larger pulley on high revving engines. Those generators did not work at low RPMs. If that is the case, then even carburetored engines with the Duntov cam should have had the larger generator. Can some experts chime in?

            -Dan-

            Comment

            • Richard M.
              Super Moderator
              • August 31, 1988
              • 11323

              #21
              Re: Headlight Switches

              Originally posted by Dan Dillingham (49672)
              Rich, that would be great if you could do this. Do I assume that all 4 of your headlights are Halogen?

              Not sure about the generator current now that you mention it. You are right about the current - my bad. But I only thought the higher current one didn't come out until 62. Did now know it was available for earlier FIs cars. It may be due to the larger pulley on high revving engines. Those generators did not work at low RPMs. If that is the case, then even carburetored engines with the Duntov cam should have had the larger generator. Can some experts chime in?

              -Dan-
              I have the meters and jumpers out and will get to it soon. Glad to help your data collection.

              The Spec Guide actually has it all there. SHP FI only from '59-'61 then all '62.

              Rich

              Comment

              • Dan D.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • November 5, 2008
                • 1323

                #22
                Re: Headlight Switches

                Okay, great Rich,

                If you could, measure with the engine running at about 2500 RPM. That will get the batt voltage up to real life conditions.

                -Dan-

                Comment

                • Richard M.
                  Super Moderator
                  • August 31, 1988
                  • 11323

                  #23
                  Re: Headlight Switches

                  Originally posted by Dan Dillingham (49672)
                  Okay, great Rich,

                  If you could, measure with the engine running at about 2500 RPM. That will get the batt voltage up to real life conditions.

                  -Dan-
                  Forgot to tell you yes all 4 are halogens.

                  Hmmm, with engine running? That means I'll have to open the garage door and let all of my cooled A/C air outside? It's about 85* here today.

                  BTW, Gen should be at about 13.8 to 14 volts at anything above 1200 or so, but I'll goose it a little too.

                  Stand by......

                  Comment

                  • Richard M.
                    Super Moderator
                    • August 31, 1988
                    • 11323

                    #24
                    Re: Headlight Switches

                    Dan, Here are the test results. Ammeter in series with Bat+ feed at HL switch(Red) and HL switch terminal. Voltmeter connected to Bat+ feed at HL switch(Red) and good ground on radio case. All lamp tests were with dash lights illuminated at max brightness. Courtesy lamp off.

                    Summary:
                    Engine at charge rpm speed(apx 1500. no noticeable change at higher rpm)

                    Park Lamps => ~1.3A
                    Low Beams => ~5.9A
                    High Beams => ~13.2A

                    Visuals.....

                    Static, engine off. My battery may be a bit weak.


                    Park lamps


                    Low beams


                    High beams



                    Engine running, just off fast idle


                    No lamps


                    ~1800 rpm (no change from ~1000 rpm up to 2500 rpm)


                    No lamps


                    1500 rpm


                    a few amps on the meter(battery charging)


                    Park lamps


                    Low beams


                    High beams


                    High beams


                    Low beams


                    Park lamps


                    The mess.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • Dan D.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • November 5, 2008
                      • 1323

                      #25
                      Re: Headlight Switches

                      Excellent work Rich, I swear, you are going to wear that camera out!

                      As far as your AC, if you can pump 20* of that air up here I will be fine. Actually though, it is not to bad up here today - 52 *. But 72* sounds much better.

                      I think I am beginning to see why the switch to 4 headlights. The 2 headlight system (with regular repro T3s) are 7.5 and 8.5 amps. A lot more power with 4 lights.

                      I should have a brand new NOS 58-63 style switch tomorrow. I will put the power to it and report the results tomorrow or Tuesday.

                      -Dan-
                      p.s. - Your 59 looks mighty nice!

                      Comment

                      • Dan D.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • November 5, 2008
                        • 1323

                        #26
                        Re: Headlight Switches

                        Okay, the switch I just got in is not a NOS, it is a repro from a supplier, in an Lectric Limited box. I would say they have fixed the blinking problem, but have set it on the high side. As delivered, it will trip right around 24 - 25 amps. The spec in ST-12 is 15 amps. Rich has measured 13.2 amps with Halogen headlights in his 59 Corvette. So will 25 amps protect the harness? Probably, but just. Looking at it, it appears they have bent the breaker arm to set the current. I will post some photos, but it appears to be bent far more than the original 59 I last worked on.

                        More to follow.

                        -Dan-

                        Comment

                        • Paul Y.
                          Very Frequent User
                          • September 30, 1982
                          • 570

                          #27
                          Re: Headlight Switches

                          Originally posted by Dan Dillingham (49672)
                          Okay, the switch I just got in is not a NOS, it is a repro from a supplier, in an Lectric Limited box. I would say they have fixed the blinking problem, but have set it on the high side. As delivered, it will trip right around 24 - 25 amps. The spec in ST-12 is 15 amps. Rich has measured 13.2 amps with Halogen headlights in his 59 Corvette. So will 25 amps protect the harness? Probably, but just. Looking at it, it appears they have bent the breaker arm to set the current. I will post some photos, but it appears to be bent far more than the original 59 I last worked on.


                          I gave up on aftermarket and repo headlight switches about 3-5 years ago on my 63. I started having problems on an OEM switch that my brother had taken apart about twenty five years ago and repaired. I purchased switches from all kinds of vendors and could not find even one that would work as original. I finally got a couple of used ones from a Corvair friend and one of them has worked very well with out problems for the last 3 or more years. I finally found a NOS one on an ebay Corvair auction so I have a back up for when the used ones get too loosey goosey. I tried the Standard ones also and found them to be short

                          More to follow.

                          -Dan-
                          I gave up on aftermarket and repo headlight switches about 3-5 years ago on my 63. I started having problems on an OEM switch that my brother had taken apart about twenty five years ago and repaired. I purchased switches from all kinds of vendors and could not find even one that would work as original. I finally got a couple of used ones from a Corvair friend and one of them has worked very well with out problems for the last 3 or more years. I finally found a NOS one on an ebay Corvair auction so I have a back up for when the used ones get too loosey goosey. I tried the Standard ones also and found them to be short lived.
                          It's a good life!














                          Comment

                          • Dan D.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • November 5, 2008
                            • 1323

                            #28
                            Re: Headlight Switches

                            Paul, can you explain exactly what problems you were seeing with these switches? Blinking headlights is the most common (and dangerous) problem. Other than that, the only other problem I'm aware of is dash light failure, usually caused by corrosion on some rivets that are used to carry current.

                            The blinking headlight problem on aftermarket switches may now be fixed, although it looks like the current limit setting may now be set too high. Corrosion should not be a problem these days either, given how few miles these cars are driven and the protected environment they live in. Other than these 2 problems, these switches should not fail in service.

                            -Dan-

                            Comment

                            • Richard M.
                              Super Moderator
                              • August 31, 1988
                              • 11323

                              #29
                              Re: Headlight Switches

                              Dan, With that repro with the 25 Amp tripping CB......

                              I would make a lengthy headlight harness up using the correct gauge wire, 20G to Low beam, through terminal to 18G to source as in the Main harness, 16G to High beamsfrom source, all to simulate the original harness, to 4 headlamps. I would cause a direct short at the furthest bulbs to 20G Blk ground as in the harness.

                              I wonder if the CB would trip and reset multple times, then fry the harness. I think it might. Probably the 20G ground would be the weakest link, melt that insulation and further short itself to feed+, and be cooked forever on a real harness.

                              I don't think I will ever use a reproduction HL switch EVER again.

                              Rich
                              Last edited by Richard M.; April 5, 2017, 08:53 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Paul Y.
                                Very Frequent User
                                • September 30, 1982
                                • 570

                                #30
                                Re: Headlight Switches

                                Originally posted by Dan Dillingham (49672)
                                Paul, can you explain exactly what problems you were seeing with these switches? Blinking headlights is the most common (and dangerous) problem. Other than that, the only other problem I'm aware of is dash light failure, usually caused by corrosion on some rivets that are used to carry current.

                                The blinking headlight problem on aftermarket switches may now be fixed, although it looks like the current limit setting may now be set too high. Corrosion should not be a problem these days either, given how few miles these cars are driven and the protected environment they live in. Other than these 2 problems, these switches should not fail in service.

                                -Dan-
                                The first one I put in the 63 worked ok until I was told that I had no tail lights. I took out and replaced it with one that did the warm up and I lost all head lights. It got increasingly worse even on the same night as I was trying to get home in the dark. I took it out and replaced it with one that gave me no dash lights. I finally gave up on those head light switches. I was getting them from Car Quest and NAPA. I purchased one for my 66 El Camino that would not light up the tail lights or license plate lights and after a ticket, I got a replacement from Car Quest that did not light the dash lights but the rear lights worked. When I turned the switch to get dash lights it would blow the fuse and spark at the switch. (I could see it at night). That one is still in the El Camino as it is a major job to take the dash down. So I have been driving it for a couple of years without dash lights. I have given up on ever getting a good one from local resources and cannot see paying the price from Corvette Vendors for a common GM part replacement. Again I have gotten a replacement used part from my friend that specializes in Corvairs. Just haven't taken the time to install it yet.
                                It's a good life!














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