63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

[Dave S.]

I have what looks to me to be an original "S" tube on my 65 L-84 car. The ITI stamp(s) are not on the Clamp of this "S" tube but the wrinkles and spot welds are as you expect. The latest 6th Edition Judging Guide calls for an ITI stamp to be in two places on the Clamp 180 degrees apart. When the car was judged the mechanical judge deducted for no ITI stamp(s) as per the JG. I was able to acquire another "S" tube but it has the ITI stamp only on one location and is made from a slightly thinner material. Also both of my "S" tubes have the head of the Clamp bolt facing down.
The Photo of the "S" tube in the 6th edition JG shows no spot welds along the top seam and the head of the Clamp bolt is facing up. I do not have a 63/64 Judging Guide so I don't know what they say about those 2 years.

Were the "S" tubes different for various years.?
Is the photo in the 65 6th Edition correct.?
Were there different fabricators of the "S"tubes.? If so what detail differences did they have.? Were they different in each of the 3 years.?
Were all original "S" tubes stamped ITI in two locations.?

On another note the judges wanted a hi hat screw that attaches the "S" tube to the radiator support to have a BP marking. They deducted accordingly. The JG makes no mention of head markings. I have seen that screw with several different markings so how can we say only one headmarking is correct. ? The car has the exact appearing hi hat screw with a different head marking.

I'd appreciate any clarifications or input so I (we) can understand these better.

[Larry M.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

So, I'm no expert but I think I can give some information. If you will send me your email address I'll send you a scan of the 64 Judging guide page (Older revision but OK for this purpose) - too big to attach. It describes how the seams in the S tube should be....I think this helps you determine if yours are orig or repro.

My Nov 63 build has seams that are right and the ITI on both sides. My clamp bolt is ELH and goes in from the top. I believe it to be all original. Viewed from the rear the bolt is about 2 oclock on the circle. I'd never done this but I loosened my clamp to see if it could be reversed. I did not horse it but it appears to be spot welded about 180 from the clamp bolt so the clamp is not a loose part, at least not on cursory inspection.

The 64 AIM calls for a 9417226 screw which to my understanding is an indented hex head sheetmetal screw, not hi-hat or top-hat. I've seen them in the past on ebay for as much as $175 a set, L or D headstamp. It is my understanding that the high hat screw was not to print and was an assembly line work around because the correct screw was difficult to install straight. There are many posts about this. The high hat could be alligned easier with a power driver, an explanation which at least makes sense. My car came to me with one correct screw and three hi-hats. The hi-hats were robbed from other GM applications, notably the tunnel pan on corvairs. I bought a number of them from Corvair Ranch. So if the 65 AIM has the same part number, which I'd guess it does, then your car would follow the same scenario. The high hat is accepted as factory original in judging but I've never seen the BP mentioned in posts. Anchor, double anchor, circles, and others and blunt tip and sharp tip are things discussed in the posts.

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

So, I'm no expert but I think I can give some information. If you will send me your email address I'll send you a scan of the 64 Judging guide page (Older revision but OK for this purpose) - too big to attach. It describes how the seams in the S tube should be....I think this helps you determine if yours are orig or repro.

My Nov 63 build has seams that are right and the ITI on both sides. My clamp bolt is ELH and goes in from the top. I believe it to be all original. Viewed from the rear the bolt is about 2 oclock on the circle. I'd never done this but I loosened my clamp to see if it could be reversed. I did not horse it but it appears to be spot welded about 180 from the clamp bolt so the clamp is not a loose part, at least not on cursory inspection.

The 64 AIM calls for a 9417226 screw which to my understanding is an indented hex head sheetmetal screw, not hi-hat or top-hat. I've seen them in the past on ebay for as much as $175 a set, L or D headstamp. It is my understanding that the high hat screw was not to print and was an assembly line work around because the correct screw was difficult to install straight. There are many posts about this. The high hat could be alligned easier with a power driver, an explanation which at least makes sense. My car came to me with one correct screw and three hi-hats. The hi-hats were robbed from other GM applications, notably the tunnel pan on corvairs. I bought a number of them from Corvair Ranch. So if the 65 AIM has the same part number, which I'd guess it does, then your car would follow the same scenario. The high hat is accepted as factory original in judging but I've never seen the BP mentioned in posts. Anchor, double anchor, circles, and others and blunt tip and sharp tip are things discussed in the posts.

Larry,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I sent you my email address.
Like many of these threads detailed reply's lead to more questions. Both my clamps are spot welded but are oriented 180 degrees from yours (head facing down) so my next question is could these have been made either way.? As I mentioned in the earlier post the lack of spot welds at the top seam in the 65 JG photo confused me. Every S tube I have seen has the spot welds on both seams. Does anyone know if there was a steel reproduction made sometime over the years.?

Your explanation of the screws makes perfect sense and I have heard of that scenario before. I was just not sure about the BP marking.

[Larry M.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Check your email. I've told you all I know.I can tell you that the one half of my tube is seamed/offset to accept the mating half so that the tube is round inside....not a simple overlap. What I sent describes this.

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Check your email. I've told you all I know.I can tell you that the one half of my tube is seamed/offset to accept the mating half so that the tube is round inside....not a simple overlap. What I sent describes this.

Larry,
Thanks for the 63/64 JG write up. That explains a lot. It clearly tells me that one of my "S" tubes is the early 63 style and the other is a correct original L63-65 "S" tube. I think the photo in the 65 JG needs to be looked at based on that write up. Interestingly there is no mention of the ITI stampings in the 63/64 JG. It seems that the Clamp could be stamped ITI once or twice (or possibly not at all ) and the Clamp could be spot welded either way but it would be helpful to hear from others on that.

[Larry M.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Note that the 64 book is rev 3...rev 6 is out there and I'm planning to buy it. When I write I realize what I don't know. It's a great management technique...ask peopel to write it down....makes them realize that they haven't gotten to the detail level. In any case, i went and looked again. My seaming is to the outside of the circle so there is no seam bump on the inside and both overlaps are on the outer clam shell...the inner clam slides inside the outer top and bottom and each seam gets about six spotwelds.

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Note that the 64 book is rev 3...rev 6 is out there and I'm planning to buy it. When I write I realize what I don't know. It's a great management technique...ask peopel to write it down....makes them realize that they haven't gotten to the detail level. In any case, i went and looked again. My seaming is to the outside of the circle so there is no seam bump on the inside and both overlaps are on the outer clam shell...the inner clam slides inside the outer top and bottom and each seam gets about six spotwelds.

That accurately describes what the JG says is early 1963. Seems yours has the ITI stamping which is different than my early version.

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

That accurately describes what the JG says is early 1963. Seems yours has the ITI stamping which is different than my early version.

Bump....hopefully the more experienced FI guys will jump in.

[Patrick C.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

These are from my '64 L84. I believe this is the original S tube. It has the marks on the band in two places. Comments welcome

[Alan D.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Patrick,
Only comment, is the black shine different from main body of air cleaner?
And around what time was the car built? Any close up of screw head on band?

[Patrick C.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Body of aircleaner and S tube have the same sheen but they have been painted. I have some original pictures however. Car built Jan '64. I have pictures of the car in '65 and a movie of it from the original owner. I put the high hat screws in. Had different screws but I was told they were wrong but i still have them.

[Alan D.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Nice!
As for high hats as your know they are not called out in the AIM, so do you have pictures of original screws (post?).

The air cleaner was supplied as an assembly while the s tube was separate item, ref AIM. The story is that the s tube was painted
in the factory at the same time as other engine interior parts, resulting in a minor different sheen. The original pictures are most likely
in black & white however an analysis can be done on the underlying pixels to see if any numbers are different - such a minor point that would require a lot of work, not worth while.
Please note i'm just looking for information - NOT being critical!
Have fun

[Dave S.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Nice!
As for high hats as your know they are not called out in the AIM, so do you have pictures of original screws (post?).

The air cleaner was supplied as an assembly while the s tube was separate item, ref AIM. The story is that the s tube was painted
in the factory at the same time as other engine interior parts, resulting in a minor different sheen. The original pictures are most likely
in black & white however an analysis can be done on the underlying pixels to see if any numbers are different - such a minor point that would require a lot of work, not worth while.
Please note i'm just looking for information - NOT being critical!
Have fun

Alan,
i will post photos of the two "S" Tubes I have when I get a chance. You have an original 64 L84 car if my memory serves me right. Any chance we can see a photo of your "S" tube and screws/bolts.? Patrick's band screw is a plain head. Seems the original band bolts were indented hex head with a washer and maybe an ELH w/ circles.????

[Patrick C.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

Alan

You maybe right on my screw. If its wrong i would like to get it right. I have the ITI mark in two places on the band also. I will see if I can dig out the screws tonight.

[Larry M.]

Re: 63-65 Fuel Injection Air Cleaner "S" Tube help needed

What I have frm Nov 63 ELH with circles indented hex and long...haven't measured but 1 1/2 to 2 I'd guess....I'll measure today