1961 FI question

[Tony K.]

I have a 1961 FI 275hp. 18k miles. Rebuilt in 1988. Been running great for the past 20 yrs. Recently it began experiencing what felt like 1/2 power, strong odor of raw fuel which lasted about 50 miles. Now it won't start. I'm getting fuel to the high pressure fuel pump/meter from the mechanical pump. All ignition components have been verified to be functioning properly. A 3 sec squirt of starter fluid in the air meter will get the car to start run smooth for about 3 seconds then it shuts down.
Any help or referral to a FI expert in my area would be much appreciated. I am located in Sacramento CA.

[Don H.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Tony
the nearest FI expert to you would probably be Jim Lockwood who lives, I believe, somewhere between Sacto and Lake Tahoe.
You can find him in the Members List, under Community in the tiny tool bar above. Search by his first name. If you click on his name, you will get links to PM him and email him. I'm sure he can diagnose your issue from your description, and fix it if you bring him the unit.
welcome to the technical discussion forum.

[Don H.]

Re: 1961 FI question

It sounds like no gas. Does it have an anti siphon valve? It would probably be under the plenum in the line from the gas meter to the spider. This valve usually gets it power from the ignition at the ballast resister. If you can see the valve and follow the wires and be sure there is voltage when the switch is on. Also you should hear it click when you turn the ignition on. It could also be the cranking signal valve (on the side of the plenum). The easy test for it would be to remove the rubber hose and apply vacuum to it while cranking the engine. If it starts, that is your problem. Good luck, Don H.

[Tony K.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Thanks for the quick responses!! Yes it does have the anti siphon valve. I did not check the voltage but will do that as will check the csv.
If I hit a road block I will look up Lockwood. Thanks guys much appreciated. I'll let you know if I am able to diagnose it.

[Jerry G.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Remove your cold enrichment valve and test to see if diaphragm is broken. easy to do.

[James G.]

Re: 1961 FI question

LOUSY Ethanol fuel destroyed the filter element. Nozzles may be plugged. Jim Lockwood lives in Pollack Pines, California. Very FI savvy . Send me a PM, and I will give you his email and phone number.

[John D.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Jim Lockwood is not taking on any more work at this time.
Tony, Terminology is one of the hardest things when discussing fuel injections. "Anti-siphon valve". That's a very tiny part inside the fuel bowls of late '59 to '65.
Siphon breaker kit/solenoid is an add on to help keep the engine from hydraulic locking. From bending connection rods and blowing the engine.
It's a 12V solenoid mounted under the FI plenum (center section). Goes in the supply line from the spider (8 copper line assembly that feeds the nozzles) and the side of the fuel bowl. In your case the valve cover side. It's powered by 12 volts so it's only has juice when the key is on. I tell owners to connect one of the black wires to the 12V side of the ballast resistor.
Check your drive cable. It could be broken.
Sounds like you have cranking signal valve problems. Do you have the shop manual? Corvette Servicing Guide aka ST12 manual? If you don't stop right there and buy one. It's has the worlds best fuel injection section that is helpful for all years.
You say the engine will start with starting fluid but that's it. Sounds like one of the factors is that valve.
Another big issue is the 20 YEAR time span on rebuilding. That's really pushing it for several reasons. One of them is this. If you are using todays ethanol your fuel injection is not updated for it.
Ethanol cause parts to stick. Especially old ethanol. Really crap. Your accelerator pump could be sticking. It's called spill valve and inside the fuel meter. Your check valve in the spider could be sticking and only the starting fluid is keeping the engine running.
Meanwhile I wouldn't run the engine anymore until you get help. Pull your dipstick. Smell it for gas. Check the oil level. Stop right there if it's high or you smell gas.
Main diaphragm is shot. Vacuum leaks. No short cuts on this. The original spill valve easily sticks. Replace it with a thumbtack style spillvalve.

Call Gary Hodges. He's in the "Restorer under carburetors. Lives in Salem, Oregon. Call Chuck Smith in CA. In the Driveline.
Call Jeff Reed. In theDrive line. He sells the repro 097 cams. Top Flight restorer and my pal. All of them are.
Call Jerry Bramlette in Mobile, AL. He should be looking in here.
You smell strong gas. Lost have of your power. Could be some electrical issues going on also. Average restoration lasts at leasts 8 years. Some longer if the owner takes care of the car. If he lets it sit around with old gas of any king (except aviation fuel) the fuel injection goes to pot quickly. And they are not fun to fix as the ethanol reeks and must about kills me. Keep us informed. John D.

Tony, 275 HP. So you have a 7017200 fuel injection unit. Has finned top plenum.But basically the same fuel meter and air meter as a 315 HP which is the 7017320 unit.

[Dan H.]

Re: 1961 FI question

LOUSY Ethanol fuel destroyed the filter element. Nozzles may be plugged. Jim Lockwood lives in Pollack Pines, California. Very FI savvy . Send me a PM, and I will give you his email and phone number.

Hi Jim, in interest of the question on fuel filter elements being destroyed, what is the filter involved and how many are we talking about? Is this a wide spread occurance or a few problems ?
Dan

[Jim L.]

Re: 1961 FI question

I spoke with Tony at length yesterday. My takeaway is that his FI unit may have a couple of problems.

One problem for sure is that the welsh plug on the side of the fuel meter is leaking. I explained the fire danger which would exist if it were to pop out and gave him some suggestions for replacing it. This may or may not be the entire source of the smell of raw fuel.

Not mentioned in his posting above is that his engine shut off suddenly. Not a Cranking Signal Valve issue. Something else has gone wrong. He can hear the anti-siphon solenoid valve clicking when he cycles the ignition switch and he says the pump drive cable is intact. My hunch is that something inside the fuel meter has failed.... anti-siphon valve popped out of its bore (or lost its check ball), ratio roller broken or lost its roller wheel, worn axle/link, etc....

In any event, I suggested some tests he can try and I expect he and I will talk again soon.

Jim

[John D.]

Re: 1961 FI question

HI Jim, Good to hear from you. John

[Jim L.]

Re: 1961 FI question

HI Jim, Good to hear from you. John

Hi John. Thanks. BTW, what you wrote IS accurate: I am not taking in any new work.

Merry Christmas,
Jim

[Dan H.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Guys, still interested in Jim Gessners concern about fuel filters breaking down with ethanol gas, what's the story?

[Jim L.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Dan, I've heard of repro GF90 filters self destructing, presumably due to the presence of alcohol in the motor fuel. I have three original GF90s in service and am having no issues. Of course the '61 belonging to the OP doesn't use a GF90.....

Jim

[Dan H.]

Re: 1961 FI question

Thanks Jim, I've heard this from several of the FI rebuilder gurus, but have put 24K on the repro GF90 filters with no problems at all. Not sure what may cause self destruction of a filter, our California gas has ethanol but seems to run OK. These new repros are quite common and if there is a problem you would think we would be hearing a lot of complaints. Wish the ones that failed could be reserched as to what kind of fuel or whatever may be adding to any failures to a fuel filter. I was told years ago not to use NOS AC filters because they'll shred due to age. Maybe others can share knowledge of any reported problems?
Dan

[Paul Y.]

Re: 1961 FI question

[I have been using OEM GF90s and have not had a problem in about 105000 miles. I use mostly pure gas now though I have run a lot of tankfuls of ethanol when I couldn't find pure gas. My injector does not like ethanol and pure gas starts and runs so much better. I have never had to use a repro GF90 as I have quite a few OEM left. I also am interested in this thread.

QUOTE=Dan Holstein (1440);790705]Thanks Jim, I've heard this from several of the FI rebuilder gurus, but have put 24K on the repro GF90 filters with no problems at all. Not sure what may cause self destruction of a filter, our California gas has ethanol but seems to run OK. These new repros are quite common and if there is a problem you would think we would be hearing a lot of complaints. Wish the ones that failed could be reserched as to what kind of fuel or whatever may be adding to any failures to a fuel filter. I was told years ago not to use NOS AC filters because they'll shred due to age. Maybe others can share knowledge of any reported problems?
Dan[/QUOTE]