67 L71 TI Regulator
I'm looking for a dependable shop to have my original voltage regulator restored. Recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Kerry, A tad confused.....
Do you mean the TI Module?
or
Do you mean the Voltage Regulator?
The same VR was used on TI or Points Ignitions.
Rich -
Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
I want the voltage regulator frame and cover restored to NCRS standards. Additionally I would like the inside converted to solid state. The regulator is charging 18 volts so I'm going to install an off the shelf unit and have the original rebuilt/restoredComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Kerry, Are you certain the VR is causing the problem? Likely, yes, but I'd want to be sure. The alternator could be at fault, or even a harness fault. If the VR, it may be a stuck relay and a simple cleaning of the contacts may correct it. You may want to open the case and do a visual check.
A few restoration options. Contact via email or PM.
Member Bill Caldwell is a VR restorer. He advertises in the Driveline as I recall. I have not done business with Bill but I know others who have and were pleased.
Member John Meissenger He sells restored VR's and may be able to get yours restored or send you to his restorer. I have purchased many restored electrical items from John over the years and he has good products and is good to work with.
There may be others. I know of 2 others but will refrain from recommending them.
More thoughts.....
Solid State units today are all made overseas with questionable Quality Control and electronics longevity. A $20 VR117 Auto Zone Asian manufactured voltage regulator may be a good cheap carry-along spare, but I don't recommend it for long term inner skirt life. I have had several fail over time. In one instance, the failure exhibited itself as a stuck-on condition(maybe similar to your fault), constantly energizing the alternator field and causing a slow drain of the battery. I discovered the fault when I leaned on the alternator after a overnight engine cool down and the alternator case was warm. This was the cause...
You may want to reconsider doing a conversion to Solid State. A properly repaired and adjusted mechanical points regulator is a reliable time proven device. A SS conversion requires partially cutting your original apart and replace part of the lower base with the SS unit and rewiring the output leads. Now your original is no longer original. If you ever plan to have the car judged, the conversion may be seen by the keen eyes of the judges using a mirror. If you ever plan to PV the car, it will likely be a fail due to the Battery meter fluctuation differences of the 2 designs. Points VR's operation will be seen as a slight flickering on the gauge due to the current draw through mechanical switching of the contact points. SS VR's switch noticeably smoother on the gauge, which is non-typical.
RichComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Rich,
Thank you for all of the wonderful information. I've heard of Bill Caldwell but had forgotten about him until you mentioned his name. I've never worked with Bill either. I checked him out prior to sending this reply and he does do electronic upgrades. I had no idea the original part had to be cut. I'm not into that at all. So yes I may reconsider. I've worked with John Pirkle in the past but he's wrapping up business as of 12/31/16 and is not taking on any new business. Too bad. He's good at what he does. We have determined it is the VR causing the problem. The car is being tested on a dyno with a lot of test leads coming from under the hood. I'm also having TI issues where the engine shuts down after approximately 15 minutes of driving. The VR issue was discovered during testing. Everything in the TI has been replaced. Consulting with Lectric Limited they are in agreement that part of the TI issue could be because of the excess heat being generated from the high voltage. With all this being said I purchased a new oil filled coil instead of the epoxy filled and am going to install a different VR and run it on the dyno and see what happens. I agree with you on China junk. I have a Made in the USA VR for a spare but who knows, the board may be made in China. I see John Meissenger's name on the forums quite often. Do you have his contact information? Regardless of it all I still want my original VR cover and frame restored. I was dinged on the condition of the cover during judging. Thank you again.Comment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Kerry, Original assembly line 263 coils, as well as the over-the-counter 207 replacements were also oil filled. Originals were not epoxy filled.
Which epoxy filled coil have you been using?
18 volts to the TI module is certainly high, and could exhibit a TI problem, but this determined and based on which manufacturer module you're using. I recall the K&B module has built in circuit protection(after a certain date code) which I also believe includes input overvoltage protection. The other manufacturer, M&H, may have this protection, but I'm uncertain. I have a datasheet on that module and I'll check if there are any specific warnings. If you're using a original Delco board, I have no idea, but it likely has no input circuit protection. Regardless, you need to correct the high DC voltage issue as you're planning.
LL's statement that the high voltage may cause high heat is a misnomer. Technically, a higher voltage will reduce the input current in the circuit, therefore typically yielding lower operating temperatures. LL makes wire harnesses, not sensitive electronics. I don't know which support person told you that but I think they were reaching a bit. As mentioned above, a high voltage input to sensitive electronics without circuit protection could cause internal component failures within the circuit, regardless of temperature.
BTW, Your stalling problem sounds very similar to a L71 issue I also had this past summer. It had several problematic issues, but one final problem turned out to be a defective replacement TI coil which was heat sensitive under the radio ignition shielding. The car would run fine for about 15 minutes or so, apx 10 miles, and would then die with the classic symptom of a failed-hot coil. With the shield cover off it still had issues. After a cool down with the hood open it would then run.
As a quick test, I replaced it with a NAPA standard (NON-TI) ignition coil and it was fine. This yielded slightly reduced secondary coil voltage, by design, as the input primary coil windings are more dense and a slightly higher input resistance. I ran the car for several long rides using this coil, under cover inside the shielding. Positive results. I then eventually replaced that coil with a NOS 207. Then all was fine and running at spec.
I also recommend your coil testing to include operation both with and without shielding(if radio optioned), and also use a IR gun to monitor temperature of the coil case at normalized engine temperatures. THis must be done with the shield top cover removed. Most TI coil failures I've seen exceed 250* F. Add the shield cover, estimated even more.
RichComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Rich, My typing mistake. LL asked if I was using an epoxy coil. I'm not but I purchased anew coil. Good news. The shop installed a off the shelf SS alternator and first impression it solved the problem. The voltage is perfect, my ammeter is steady and most importantly it didn't shut down. Again the car was run on the dyno duplicating normal driving conditions. Hood closed, fluctuating speeds and a broad range of RPM's and it didn't shut down. It ran and ran and ran. 65 miles worth of running. More testing will be done just to make sure.
Going back to your earlier post, I agree the smooth transition of the ammeter under PV would most certainly be dinged. The funny thing is the car during an earlier PV was dinged for too much needle bounce. Hence another sign the VR was faulty.
As far as my original 515 I still want to have it rebuilt/restored but I'm going to take your advice and keep it stock. No SS conversion. Is there a way for you to put me in touch with John Meissenger? Thank you again for your assistance and I will keep you posted.Comment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
I forgot to add. Check out big3performance.com. Sheet metal fabrication, body shop, complete restorations, race engines and more The owner Aaron is an engine guru. After working with this shop I would never allow anyone else to touch either of my cars. Even if I moved out of state. If you happen to check out the site as peruse the gallery. Also under News and Projects there are pictures of my car. The Marina Blue 67. Aaron went overboard with "National Champion" but it is a four time Top Flight with a 97.8 best score and also a Golden Spinner concourse award. The engine work has been completed and was done within original specs. No compression changes, roller cams just high end parts.Comment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Kerry, Erratic and bouncy fluctuation on the Battery meter is typically caused by the absence of the proper amount of dampening fluid inside the meter movement. It evaporates out over time.
A stock VR switches on and off rapidly as seen on the gauge needle and is normal. The dampening fluid simply slows the needle bounce during the switching operation.
The fluid can be replenished during a rebuild of the gauge meter.
RichComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
True. However with the SS VR installed my ammeter needle is straight and true and moves fluidly with the demands of the charging system. Such as moving incrementally down as the battery is being replenished after the car has been started. Although as you mentioned above this behavior may not pass PV. The car has been driven very little over years because of judging. Now that I'm trying to enjoy it to a degree the issues are popping up. I just returned from the shop and again the car ran flawlessly on the dyno. So for now I'm happyComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Happiness is a nice running L71 with TI !!
Glad you figured it all out.
RichComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Rich, Another question. Will you please help with how to contact John Meissenger? I've searched the members list and Google and no luck coming up with contact information. In fact unless I did something wrong I don't see him on the members list at all.If you are unable to hand out his info will you provide to John and he can contact me. Thank you.Comment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Hi Kerry,
Yes, hard to find him in the Member list as it's a unique one. His user name is....
John & Pam Meissinger (33483)
Here's a direct link to his Profile. In there you can send him a PM or a Email. I had his phone# somewhere but cannot locate it. He's in Oregon.
Tell him I said hello and referred you to him.
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/member.p...singer-(33483)
He's also a seller on Ebay, so you can try him through that if no luck above.
His NOS Corvette parts collection was amazing years ago and used to sell everything NO reserve with a $9.95 start bid. These days it's mostly Buy it Now.
RichComment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
John's number is 503-939-5444Comment
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Re: 67 L71 TI Regulator
Jim, Thank you very much for the info.Comment
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