Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

[Terry M.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

High voltage protection is not necessary for vintage Corvettes or any non-hybird vehicle. Also, the Dexcool formulation and other OAT technology antifreezes do not provide optimum corrosion protection for solder. An HOAT formulation like Zerex G-05 is best for cars with soldered components. Even if your vintage Corvette has an aluminum radiator, it still had a soldered brass heater core.

Duke

I guess I wasn't very clear. The presenters main point was to use deionized (not distilled) water because the minerals in water are conductive. His story was the deionized water contains no minerals. I will leave the veracity of that comment to you chemistry majors. Since the focus of the session was C6s the type of coolant was his suggestion for those vehicles. I have no idea what the heater core in C6s is made of (and I hope never to find out through personal experience), but the rest of the cooling system is aluminum. I am not sure how available deionized water is = I have never looked. I know distilled water is commonly available and inexpensive.

[Joe L.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

I guess I wasn't very clear. The presenters main point was to use deionized (not distilled) water because the minerals in water are conductive. His story was the deionized water contains no minerals. I will leave the veracity of that comment to you chemistry majors. Since the focus of the session was C6s the type of coolant was his suggestion for those vehicles. I have no idea what the heater core in C6s is made of (and I hope never to find out through personal experience), but the rest of the cooling system is aluminum. I am not sure how available deionized water is = I have never looked. I know distilled water is commonly available and inexpensive.

Terry------


C6 heater core is all aluminum construction.

De-ionized water is very commonly available. Distilled water is equivalent to deionized water. Basically, deionization and distillation are two means of getting to, essentially, the same end. Once-upon-a-time, distillation was the most common method. These days deionization is more common, probably because it's more energy efficient.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Joe,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always understood the difference between deionized and distilled water is the one extra step the distilled water goes through to remove any bacteria so it's potable where as the deionized water is not potable.

Oh I almost forgot, the price at the auto parts store for deionized water is $3/gal vs. 70 cents/gal for the distilled water at a grocery store.

[Duke W.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Terry------



De-ionized water is very commonly available. Distilled water is equivalent to deionized water. Basically, deionization and distillation are two means of getting to, essentially, the same end. Once-upon-a-time, distillation was the most common method. These days deionization is more common, probably because it's more energy efficient.

Either process removes mineral and other ions from water like calcium and chlorine (which is corrosive and most domestic water includes a trace amount of chlorine) , but even "pure" water has very slight disassociation of H2O into H+ and OH- ions, so it's an electrolyte, albeit very weak. Also anti-freeze products other than maybe OAT contain ions, but they are "good" ions that protect the system from corrosion.

Joe spent his career at the waterworks, so you can take his statement as gospel. The only thing I question is that if the deionization process is cheaper than distillation, why is the product more expensive?

Given the lower price and wider availability of distilled water, that's what I continue to recommend at the blending agent for HOAT antifreeze.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Joe,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always understood the difference between deionized and distilled water is the one extra step the distilled water goes through to remove any bacteria so it's potable where as the deionized water is not potable.

Oh I almost forgot, the price at the auto parts store for deionized water is $3/gal vs. 70 cents/gal for the distilled water at a grocery store.

Timothy------

Distilled water is "naturally" free of bacterial contamination when it's produced. However, it might not stay that way since I don't think that sterile procedures are necessarily followed subsequently.

De-ionized water would have to go through an additional micro-filtering step to be bacteria-free. I don't know that any de-ionized water on the market is so-treated. There may be some but it would be a lot more expensive.

Keep in mind that most, if not all, distilled and de-ionized water is produced from a potable water supply. So, the finished product is no worse in bacterial contamination than the original supply and, thus, both are potable. I think you will find that much of the purified water sold in grocery stores is purified by de-ionization or reverse osmosis.

I think the price difference you point out is more a factor of the type of retailers you mention rather than a fundamental difference in the cost of producing either type of water.

In any event, I think that distilled or de-ionized water is completely equivalent as far as automotive cooling systems are concerned. Bacterial contamination, even if it existed, would be essentially irrelevant.

By the way, potable water supplies meeting EPA standards are usually not free of bacteria. What they are free of (hopefully) is disease-producing bacteria.

[Nick M.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

I am in need of a new Fan clutch, I have seen a couple different suppliers referenced, In the original post he referenced "New fan clutch from J&R".

i've read others reference K and B.

Which vendor supplies the best working Fan clutch out there?

my car is a 1966 L79, no AC, all stock.

the car continues to over heat only sitting in traffic, not in a driving situation.

cleaned, changed, upgraded everything from flushing engine, yes pulled the plugs, thermostat, Dewitt's restoration radiator, everything checked with a thermometer, everything is as it left the factory.

two last items to try:

New Fan Clutch (current one is from my local auto parts store, 4 years old) and
AC seal located on the top of the fan shroud

don't mean to hijack the thread.

looking forward to your input.

[Rich G.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Nick

I think I had a brain mis-step (and I'm not even a politician). I meant K&B fan clutch. J&R is a steak house in these parts

How hot does your L79 get in traffic? As Duke pointed out, it will run warmer. If you don't have a top radiator seal I think adding one will help.

Rich

[Nick M.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Thanks Rich,

You must have missed lunch the day you wrote your original thread, and were thinking about J&R.

The car runs well and cool when it is moving, even when it is mid, to high 80's. The Temp. needle will sit around 180 all day.

Only when I am sitting in traffic does it rise towards the redline (230-250) and I confirmed this with an infrared thermometer.

It has also boiled over.

Checking the Fan clutch, cold and hot, it does tighten up and turns a little over a turn and a bit when the car is shut off when hot and more when cold.

I am heading towards changing out the Fan Clutch as I have tried everything else recommended, however, may try the new upper shroud seal first, as it is a lot easier to change and cheaper.

If you don't mind me asking, how is the Fan Clutch working and what was the ballpark price?

Thanks

[Rich G.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

As far as the price of the fan clutch, I'll have to look for the receipt and get back to you, but it wasn't cheap. I'm sure another from your local auto parts would work and be cheaper. I had a large credit at the shop that does work for me and just told him where to get it and install it. They got it from Long Island Corvette Supply. Others here have purchased it from other vendors.

The tip off for me that my old clutch wasn't up to par was the temp with IR thermometer at the upper hose and the bottom hose was the same. That showed me the radiator wasn't exchanging any heat with the atmosphere. When I put the new one in, the differential is 20-30 degree if I recall. Also, standing next to the car with the hood open and letting it idle from cold you can hear and feel the warm air coming back when the clutch engages.

I guess you should verify your clutch is working or not before you spend a bunch of money. The K&B looks original but any clutch from your local auto parts will work if the one you have is done.

Also, the radiator seal, as Joe Lucia described above, can be a big help. It did for me, although even before that I never got above 220 at idle.

Do you have the correct vacuum advance? I think B28 is the one.

Finally, if you order the seal from Doc Rebuild, be prepared for one of the more bizarre online ordering experiences you can have. Nothing bad but just "eccentric". Doc has good stuff and it's worth the experience :-)

Rich

[Joe L.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Either process removes mineral and other ions from water like calcium and chlorine (which is corrosive and most domestic water includes a trace amount of chlorine) , but even "pure" water has very slight disassociation of H2O into H+ and OH- ions, so it's an electrolyte, albeit very weak. Also anti-freeze products other than maybe OAT contain ions, but they are "good" ions that protect the system from corrosion.

Joe spent his career at the waterworks, so you can take his statement as gospel. The only thing I question is that if the deionization process is cheaper than distillation, why is the product more expensive?

Given the lower price and wider availability of distilled water, that's what I continue to recommend at the blending agent for HOAT antifreeze.

Duke

Duke-------


I'm just speculating that distilled water should cost more to make than de-ionized. My reasoning is that distillation is an energy-intensive process whereas de-ionization is not. For de-ionization all one needs to do is to pass decent feedstock water through a mix bed de-ionization system. One can purchase a mixed bed de-ionization cartridge for about 30 bucks. Then, with a decent feedstock water one could make hundreds of gallons of DI water. We actually used to do a version of this in our laboratory. We had a mixed bed DI system cylinder (about 1' X 4') in our utility room and this piped DI water into a special spigot at each sink in the laboratory. Even with relatively heavy use, the DI cylinder would last several months. A vendor supplied a re-generated cylinder as required. Of course, we had very good feedstock water with very low TDS. The water produced by this system was equivalent to distilled water.

For certain work we needed ultrapure water. To produce this we took the DI water and further processed it with an ultrafiltration system. This system included an activated carbon canister, an anion exchange resin canister, a cation exchange resin canister, a mixed bed canister, followed by a Millipore filter to remove any bacteria that got through the system. This system would produce water approaching 17 megaohm resistance (17 megaohm resistance is considered absolutely pure water but it's unachieveable since the water will dissolve some of whatever container it's in).

I can't imagine that any of the de-ionized water generally available on the market would be the ultrapure variety. Nor could any possible automotive use even remotely require such water. In fact, I think that low TDS tap water ought to suffice for automotive coolant applications. Of course, the majority of the country does not have low TDS tap water and most folks don't know what they have. So, the best bet is to use water purified by distillation, de-ionization, or reverse osmosis. Any of those processes ought to produce water suitable for ANY automotive cooling system.

[Nick M.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Thanks Rich,

yes i I do have the right can, I had the dizzy rebuilt by Lars last year and he did it right

i will try the seal first, then if the problem persists, will try a new fan clutch

[Joe L.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Thanks Rich,

yes i I do have the right can, I had the dizzy rebuilt by Lars last year and he did it right

i will try the seal first, then if the problem persists, will try a new fan clutch

Nick-------


Can you post a photo of the fan clutch you are using now?

[Jim T.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Are you using 100% full time vacuum to your distributors vacuum advance unit?

[Nick M.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

I will take some photos tonight of my Fan clutch.

The vacuum line is running from the vacuum advance to the base of the Carb.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Cooling Issues Solved 327/350

Duke-------


I'm just speculating that distilled water should cost more to make than de-ionized. My reasoning is that distillation is an energy-intensive process whereas de-ionization is not. For de-ionization all one needs to do is to pass decent feedstock water through a mix bed de-ionization system. One can purchase a mixed bed de-ionization cartridge for about 30 bucks. Then, with a decent feedstock water one could make hundreds of gallons of DI water. We actually used to do a version of this in our laboratory. We had a mixed bed DI system cylinder (about 1' X 4') in our utility room and this piped DI water into a special spigot at each sink in the laboratory. Even with relatively heavy use, the DI cylinder would last several months. A vendor supplied a re-generated cylinder as required. Of course, we had very good feedstock water with very low TDS. The water produced by this system was equivalent to distilled water.

For certain work we needed ultrapure water. To produce this we took the DI water and further processed it with an ultrafiltration system. This system included an activated carbon canister, an anion exchange resin canister, a cation exchange resin canister, a mixed bed canister, followed by a Millipore filter to remove any bacteria that got through the system. This system would produce water approaching 17 megaohm resistance (17 megaohm resistance is considered absolutely pure water but it's unachieveable since the water will dissolve some of whatever container it's in).

I can't imagine that any of the de-ionized water generally available on the market would be the ultrapure variety. Nor could any possible automotive use even remotely require such water. In fact, I think that low TDS tap water ought to suffice for automotive coolant applications. Of course, the majority of the country does not have low TDS tap water and most folks don't know what they have. So, the best bet is to use water purified by distillation, de-ionization, or reverse osmosis. Any of those processes ought to produce water suitable for ANY automotive cooling system.

Joe,

You sound like the cullingan man! :-)