Frame rust on dealer cars

[Walter F.]

I have been seeing and hearing about frame rust on C2 and C3 cars. My questuon is ( if anyone knows without using dealer names), when you buy C2 and C3 Corvettes from well known Corvette dealers, are all those cars frames and birdcages checked and certified before they are sold, especially since some of those cars are near six figures.

[Joe R.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Well, I can certify that they are NOT guaranteed to be rust free. That includes all dealers and individuals in the world!!!!! Would you expect a Corvette made from 1953 to 83 to be rust free???? It's your responsibility to accept the vehicle "as is" when you sign on the dotted line.

JR

[Keith W.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Walter brought a 65 out of LA a couple of years ago the car came from SD so a real south California car - I looked over the car and banged the frame here and there all good - 4 weeks later shipped home and up on ramps while cleaning - I collected the following rust - it's got to be down to the buyer beware

[Joe L.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Walter brought a 65 out of LA a couple of years ago the car came from SD so a real south California car - I looked over the car and banged the frame here and there all good - 4 weeks later shipped home and up on ramps while cleaning - I collected the following rust - it's got to be down to the buyer beware

Keith------


I highly doubt that this car lived in California its entire life. It may have come from San Diego but where did it come from before that?

[John F.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Caveat emptor!

[Frank D.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

I looked at a ton of split window Corvettes before buying mine from a friend.
Made the circuit of classic car dealers all over Florida.
I wouldn't count on them certifying/checking ANYTHING.

I found rusted frames, bad birdcages, crooked replacement front clips, restamped engine pads and on and on...
Don't be naive... Your friend is knowledge and a gooseneck inspection camera (Harbor Freight has them)

[John D.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

One of the things buyers should quit doing is this. They call a chapter chairman (like JD here) or email them and say. Would it be possible for one of your members to check over a Corvette for him and let him know this and that.
I certainly would not do that. If one if going to spend big bucks he or she needs to hire professional appraisers. At all cost. Mail him a plane ticket or whatever it takes.
We talked about this at Corvette Carlisle this past weekend.
I personally would not buy a car without hiring an appraiser and I have been in the game for a very long time. John

[Dan D.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Talk about frames...I picked up my '72 convertible in 1985. I was a District Manager for Pontiac Division, and all the dealers in my district knew I was looking for an“original” Corvette convertible with a stick. Anyway, one of my dealers called me at home and told me he was taking this car in on a special edition Trans Am. He said the car looked OK, so I asked him to hold it and I would be up. When I saw the car, it did look pretty good and I bought it. Four years later, in 1989, while in for some routine maintenance, the service manager called me that he saw some spots on the frame. (It took that long for the camouflage to wear off) Long story short; either cut through the plastic or take the body off. After the body was off, you could read a newspaper through where the trailing arms went into the frame. Now, the dealer and I both knew why the previous owner was so anxious to pay what was really "too much / too fast" trading it in, even on the special edition Trans Am. Over the years,the Dealer and I always had a good laugh about it. Goes to show you...everybody thinks dealers are "shaky", but, I could fill a book with what I've seen customers do to "get over" on dealers and/or the factory.Anyway, once the body was off, being a GM employee, I had plenty of help, through my buddies, locating a new frame, trailing arms, "A" frames and lots of other parts scattered around in GMPD warehouses. The car is still in the original paint, chrome and glass. I've had a new top and interior put in. I've really enjoyed maintaining and driving the car over the past 30 years. I keep regular plates, full insurance and get regular state inspections so I have absolutely no restrictions on driving. I wouldn’t hesitate to drive this 44 year old car cross country…it’s that sound.

[Joe L.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Talk about frames...I picked up my '72 convertible in 1985. I was a District Manager for Pontiac Division, and all the dealers in my district knew I was looking for an“original” Corvette convertible with a stick. Anyway, one of my dealers called me at home and told me he was taking this car in on a special edition Trans Am. He said the car looked OK, so I asked him to hold it and I would be up. When I saw the car, it did look pretty good and I bought it. Four years later, in 1989, while in for some routine maintenance, the service manager called me that he saw some spots on the frame. (It took that long for the camouflage to wear off) Long story short; either cut through the plastic or take the body off. After the body was off, you could read a newspaper through where the trailing arms went into the frame. Now, the dealer and I both knew why the previous owner was so anxious to pay what was really "too much / too fast" trading it in, even on the special edition Trans Am. Over the years,the Dealer and I always had a good laugh about it. Goes to show you...everybody thinks dealers are "shaky", but, I could fill a book with what I've seen customers do to "get over" on dealers and/or the factory.Anyway, once the body was off, being a GM employee, I had plenty of help, through my buddies, locating a new frame, trailing arms, "A" frames and lots of other parts scattered around in GMPD warehouses. The car is still in the original paint, chrome and glass. I've had a new top and interior put in. I've really enjoyed maintaining and driving the car over the past 30 years. I keep regular plates, full insurance and get regular state inspections so I have absolutely no restrictions on driving. I wouldn’t hesitate to drive this 44 year old car cross country…it’s that sound.

Dan------


Yes, it's perfectly sound now since you've pretty much rebuilt the whole car and you definitely could drive it anywhere.

One note of caution I'll repeat here: if one is considering buying a car that has lived ANY of its life in areas of the country where the roads are salted, one needs to approach the purchase with extreme caution. It might be difficult to ascertain just where the car has lived since most of these cars have been through many owners. If one does not KNOW everywhere it's lived, then one has to assume the worst and conduct a thorough inspection even if it's expensive. To be honest, and I know this sounds drastic, I believe that the vast majority of cars that have lived, even for a short time, in areas of the country with salted roads will have serious frame and/or birdcage corrosion. This DRASTICALLY reduces the value of the car.

[Mark E.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

The car is still in the original paint, chrome and glass.

I don't hear about very many 45 year old cars with original paint but a new frame.

Good point about blaming the dealer for hidden problems. There's a good chance they didn't know either. If the car looks decent when received, it just goes through a quick make-ready before going on sale.

[Dan D.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Joe...

While I have done a lot over 30 years, my main intention, from the start, was to have a car I could enjoy driving. No question, the car was original when I got it and, I've always made a sincere effort to keep the car as original as possible. Replacement parts are all either GM parts or the best quality reproduction I could find, none of which are "date coded." When I had the frame replaced in 1989, believe it or not the bodyshop manager lost the build sheet from the gas tank during the change over. We're talking over a quarter of a century ago...when I think of him, I could still strangle him. Anyway it's a good, solid, original looking car...that I could never get what I have in it...but worth every penny to me because at 78 years old I really enjoy driving it.

[Mark S.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Interesting comment on using caution when buying a car from a state where roads are salted. When I was conversing with Mike Hunt on his data base for 56 and 57 Corvettes, I noticed an unusually high number of 56/57 Corvettes from Minnesota and Wisconsin. Mike and I thought that maybe this was due to the fact that many Corvette owners do not drive their Corvettes during the winter months. I can go along with this premise as I do not drive my Corvettes in the winter and I have lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Almost all my Corvette friends also do not drive their Corvettes in the winter. In fact, it is usually a very small percentage of people that drive their Corvettes in the winter around here. Due to this, you may find some of the most pristine examples of older Corvettes that experience only a few months of use within these areas. Just my 2 cents!

[Michael G.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

I always ask for photos of the rear kickup areas as a first screening as to whether there may be rust issues. Attached are some shots (I hope - my first attempt on this board) of a car in Bloomington, Illinois, which looks very straight and original on the topside.IMG_4092.JPG

Edit: sorry, there were more, haven't got the hang yet but y'all get the idea :-)

[Joe L.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Interesting comment on using caution when buying a car from a state where roads are salted. When I was conversing with Mike Hunt on his data base for 56 and 57 Corvettes, I noticed an unusually high number of 56/57 Corvettes from Minnesota and Wisconsin. Mike and I thought that maybe this was due to the fact that many Corvette owners do not drive their Corvettes during the winter months. I can go along with this premise as I do not drive my Corvettes in the winter and I have lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Almost all my Corvette friends also do not drive their Corvettes in the winter. In fact, it is usually a very small percentage of people that drive their Corvettes in the winter around here. Due to this, you may find some of the most pristine examples of older Corvettes that experience only a few months of use within these areas. Just my 2 cents!

Mark------


I'm sure that many owner of Corvettes in harsh winter areas do not drive them in the winter. However, was this true of EVERY owner of the Corvette back to day-one? Once-upon-a-time, most of these cars were daily drivers. Once salt-induced corrosion begins, it proceeds inexorably.

Also, keep in mind that all of the salt dispensed onto the roadways does not go away when the snow melts away. Some of it remains on the roads and is "re-mobilized" during rains.

[Mark S.]

Re: Frame rust on dealer cars

Joe:

I respect your opinion and logic would probably agree with you, and yes there were some Corvette owners that drove their cars in the winter ; however, some of the data collected and the experience of several collectors in the midwest would might show otherwise statistics. Back then and true to this day, many Corvette owners store their cars in the winter. This was shown by the high number of survivor C1 Corvettes in the midwest. When spring arrives we usually get heavy rains to wash the salt off the roads, so there is no salt remains on the roads. You just may find more frame rot on Corvettes close to the oceans or on Corvettes that were driven 12 months a year. Your logic is spot on for the metal cars that were driven all year long. In this case cars from the Dakotas survived better than Minnesota and Wisconsin due to their treatment of the roads with no salt.